Navigating the Stormy Seas of Trauma: Strategies, Self-Care, and Compassion with Dr. Daniella Lang

Di: 0:08

Hello and welcome Bodyholic with Di, the podcast that explores the interconnected world of mental and physical health. I'm your Di ,Katz Shachar, , and today we have a very special episode dedicated to an important topic trauma in general, trauma in children, and how we can support ourselves, our peers and our children in the healing journey. I'd like to start off with a quick note for our listeners. As we're recording this, the Iron Swords War is taking place. We're in Israel, so there is a very strong sense of urgency that we conduct this interview and publish it. Additionally, you might hear some background noises related to the event. We really appreciate your understanding as we navigate through this highly unique, unprecedented situation. Now let me introduce our esteemed guest for today, dr Daniella Lange.

Di: 1:16

Dr Lange is a dedicated clinical psychologist with a wealth of experience in working with clients who have faced a wide range of challenges throughout their lives. She has received clinical training in diverse settings, including schools, hospitals and community-based programs serving individuals, groups and families. What sets Dr Lange apart is her passion for helping children and adolescents who have experienced anxiety, depression and trauma. As a native Spanish speaker and the daughter of Argentinian immigrants, she especially is adept at working with culturally, linguistically and socioeconomically diverse clients and family systems. Dr Lange has also played a crucial role in assisting survivors of domestic abuse and has worked with students impacted by the tragic Parkland shooting. She utilizes a range of therapeutic approaches, including narrative, existential and trauma-focused cognitive behavioral therapies, to guide individuals on their path to healing. Dr Lange earned her doctoral degree from the Illinois School of Professional Psychology and completed her postdoctoral residency at Nova Southeastern University after an APA accredited pre-doctoral internship with the Community Action and Human Services Department of Miami-Dade County. She currently holds a supervisory and counseling position at Nova Southeastern University.

Di: 3:09

Before we get started, I would like to invite you to subscribe to this podcast, which will help you never miss an episode, and help me and others because, as a result, it will rank higher so that I can reach more people in the effort of providing science-based information that is crucial to our well-being. We are incredibly fortunate to have Dr Lange with us today to dive into the topic of trauma and how to best support individuals, children and families through these very highly challenging experiences. So, without further ado, let's get started. Dr Daniella Lange, thank you so much for joining me today in this very, very sensitive time. I am just going to write off the bat, say that both Dr Lange and I are in a situation in Israel at the time of war and if there are sirens, we're going to take a break and come back and you might hear background noises and that's just the situation and that's also why we are here. So, really, truly, thank you so much for joining me, thank you so much for having me.

Dr. Daniella Lang: 4:44

It's a pleasure to be here.

Di: 4:49

Let's maybe kick off with you just telling me and the listeners a little bit of who you are and maybe have them understand why I brought you onto the podcast, sure.

Dr. Daniella Lang: 5:05

I'm a licensed clinical psychologist.

Dr. Daniella Lang: 5:08

I kind of accidentally got into the field of trauma because I moved to Florida to finish my doctoral training and, as a lot of people know, there's a lot of trauma that has happened, unfortunately, in Florida and I was first involved in the crisis response to a mass trauma event during the Parkland school shooting and I went the next day to the schools and helped to organize and structure and provide mental health support and relief and crisis intervention to the students there.

Dr. Daniella Lang: 5:47

And then, unfortunately, a few years later, there was a building collapse in the same area near Miami and I happened to be able to be involved and I brought on my mentors and we together went to help with Hatsala and we were on the ground and going in ambulances to do wellness checks at people's homes who had found out about their loved ones passing away and I've always.

Dr. Daniella Lang: 6:15

And then this past summer there was a shooting in my hometown I'm originally from Chicago and I asked if they needed me to go and help them and so I flew home to help the survivors of Highland Park in my home and became involved in structuring the relief efforts there and then I did a lot of work with different, with the survivors and we connected with other survivors because it was really helpful for different communities of survivors like Uvalde, and we joined together to go to DC and talk to different politicians and I've worked with, unfortunately, people that have experienced mass trauma in a lot of different capacities and I feel like those experiences feel almost minimal compared to what we're going through now and it's just really hard to fathom and it's also a whole new experience being a part of the trauma and actually living through it.

Di: 7:14

So I feel it's my calling. Yeah, I can imagine Important, but yeah, wow, that's really right. You were outside of it, you were the objective voice and now you are also working, but you're a part of it, which is such an interesting perspective, because I'm sure a lot of even therapists could listen to this conversation and get the feeling of compassion from you and empathy, because it's not easy being the supporter when you are also needing support probably.

Dr. Daniella Lang: 8:04

It's a really hard balance being wanting to help into all the work that I've done before and knowing that I need to take a step back and really take care of myself. And, yeah, a lot of us are also feeling that.

Di: 8:20

Right, right, let's maybe also get into some of the misconceptions and myths about the topic of trauma to begin with, so that we can also dive into it a little bit deeper. So let's maybe get the myths out of the way first, so we can sharpen our view and knowledge about the topic.

Dr. Daniella Lang: 8:51

Sure, I think that people often look for answers during these difficult times about what's right and wrong and how they should be coping, and I think that there isn't really a right or wrong way, and I think it's also really I mean, it's really common for people to be on edge and nervous and maybe criticizing each other about how each other are responding to this Myself and having those reactions. But I think it's really important to kind of put that aside and recognize that for all different reasons, people are responding the best way that they know how, and no one's necessarily right or wrong. We just need to make sure that we're kind of standing by each other and making sure that each other are safe and not in harm's way. And I think that people really look for. They look for answers and I think that, like I feel my job is to kind of I feel it's a privilege to walk alongside people that are in trauma and help them navigate and find the light after. I'm not trying to tell them that they're wrong or they need to do something different.

Di: 10:03

I think the Right, so it's like the Like. There is no one way. Uh the.

Dr. Daniella Lang: 10:12

I'm sorry.

Di: 10:14

No, I was saying that the thought that this is the way to deal with trauma is the main misconception, because there is no this way.

Dr. Daniella Lang: 10:25

Yeah, I mean, I think there's different skills that we can use and different coping strategies and we'll get into all that later but in general, I think there's no right or wrong way, we just have to. The main thing is for us to be able to sit with uncertainty. And I think that's the hardest thing, even though it sounds very simple. I think it's really the hardest thing.

Di: 10:54

Actually, sitting with uncertainty is, yeah, to me. To me, maybe, specifically in my situation you know, being in Israel right now, that does not sound simple to me at all. It sounds, yeah, this uncertainty is very scary, and really learning the skills to sit with it is incredible. Actually, this is all new to me by no means a trauma expert. So just the thought of sitting with uncertainty, I deal with that with mindfulness. But, yeah, it is very complicated.

Di: 11:40

And you know, we're also seeing the impact of this specific war on families. But this can be translated to any kind of situation where a family has been through trauma. And so, just specifically right now, you know, as we are publishing, or rather airing this conversation, it is at a time where many, many families are being literally I'm sorry to say this, but literally destroyed and literally going through exceptional, unprecedented trauma. And so what is the impact of trauma on families? So that we could understand the people around us and so that maybe we could help the families themselves to understand what to expect and maybe what to even look for in a therapist.

Dr. Daniella Lang: 12:47

Okay, I think that this particular catastrophe, nightmare that we're living through is really interesting because there's so much multi-generational trauma, especially among the Jewish people. I'll just speak about them. I mean, we've been through the Holocaust before that. Like it's kind of in our DNA that I mean it's kind of known that a lot of Jews, ashkenazi Jews, jews just have anxiety in general and I think a lot of that kind of it's a joke and it's a like the you think of the Jewish mother, the anxious Jewish mother. But I think it's it's because, like we have that Sorry, I'm losing my words right now. I think that there's just so much trauma in our history and now for us to be in this experience, I think a lot of us are thinking about that. A lot of us are having past traumas resurface. I think that you ask such a big question. I have so much that I want to say.

Dr. Daniella Lang: 13:52

We're kind of in fight, flight and freeze mode and a lot of us, I think, are feeling numb in our parasympathetic nervous systems are on overdrive right now, so we might be feeling exhausted, we might be feeling adrenaline rushes. I know that I personally, when I hear the siren right after, I feel so exhausted and like I can't move. It's almost like I feel my parasympathetic nervous system letting, letting itself go and relax a little bit after, like you can kind of in the moment, the adrenaline rush is so high, and then for me, I personally feel it after. I think it's different for everyone. I'm hearing a lot of people being really, really irritable. I myself included, I'm feeling a little bit irritable. There's a lot of nerves, crying, difficulty, focusing, a lot of blunt, flat affect going on. I think that there's a lot of people getting angry with each other for various things. I went to the gym the other day and we were all yelling and angry about the air conditioning and clearly wasn't about the air conditioning.

Dr. Daniella Lang: 15:02

But we're kind of projecting our feelings on other things right now and I think people see, yeah, I think we have to be really mindful of our past traumas and people's past traumas, because it's really common that people are having past memories come up of whether there be losses that they've had or really significant difficult events that they've experienced, or even that they've heard about or even seen on TV or just had any kind of knowledge about.

Dr. Daniella Lang: 15:36

I also want to point out that some people might not be feeling these things, and that's also okay. Some people you might expect them to have a horrific, awful reaction and they might be able to compose themselves okay, and I don't necessarily think that that's wrong either. So I think I also think that the impact is kind of different now than it might be for, like in a year. I think the magnitude of this is enormous and we can't really comprehend it, and the impact is going to last for a really long time and I believe that a lot of people maybe aren't showing symptoms now, but it might come up later. We all need to be mindful of ourselves and others. If we notice that each other acting any differently whether it be eating more or less or getting more angry or fidgeting around more or more tearful or having more loud thoughts in our mind I think we just need to make sure to check in with ourselves and also noticing tension in our bodies.

Di: 16:44

Does it make sense to want to say check in with your family members, or is it like right now, just like be aware that you're sensitive towards your family members? How do we navigate right now, when it's like everybody's kind of dealing with cabin fever and like any second you feel like you're going to pop. I see this from all over, all around me. I feel it myself. I see it on my kid who like doesn't even know exactly what's going on, but like she wants to get out already. She wants to go back to our normal routine. Does it make sense to say try to be sensitive to the people around you, or is it just like just checking with yourself? In other words, I almost feel bad saying take care of the people around you when you've got so much going on in your own mind.

Dr. Daniella Lang: 17:56

I like to think of the gas mask, the oxygen mask on an airplane, and how they always say make sure that your mask is on first. I think that we all need to think about that. I think we need to take care of each other, but we're not going to be able to do that effectively if we're not able to check in on ourselves. It's kind of like serving a drink to someone from an empty pitcher. We need to make sure that. So I think both are true. We need to take care of others, but in order to do that, we need to take care of ourselves.

Dr. Daniella Lang: 18:30

And I see a lot of people running around and doing all these beautiful things and trying to take care of other people, and I think that is what's so beautiful about the Jewish people and being in Israel and part of why I decided to stay instead of going back to United States right now. But I also think in doing that, I hope that people take time to themselves and cause everyone's going through it also while they're helping other people. We're not gonna get anywhere if we don't help ourselves a bit as well.

Dr. Daniella Lang: 19:03

Whether that be listening to music, making sure that you're eating, resting a little bit I mean self-care can look multitude of different ways.

Di: 19:15

Right right, anybody like two people might have a completely different perspective on what self-care is and filling up that picture, like you said. So, on that note, what are some of the strategies that we're gonna specifically maybe talk about families? What are some of the strategies that families can use to cope with trauma?

Dr. Daniella Lang: 19:47

Well, first of all, I think we need to check on each other and not be afraid to ask questions.

Dr. Daniella Lang: 19:52

I think oftentimes there's a misconception and that bringing up the word, like bringing up thoughts of wanting to harm oneself or wanting to hurt someone else or wanting to take one's own life, I think those are things. There's a very big misconception that bringing up that topic makes things worse and it often helps like it helps people to give them a space. I think that it's important to. If you see somebody that's really acting in a way that is different or just checking in, I think I'm sorry, I'm something over my words. Again, I'm finding myself being more nervous about speaking than I'm kind of in the war a little bit, and more nervous about speaking. But I think we shouldn't be afraid to ask each other questions. I think oftentimes we'll assume we can assume what someone else might be feeling, but it's important to give someone else that space to be able to express what they're going through, so that then they can reach out and get the help that they need, and to not feel afraid of asking difficult questions.

Di: 21:03

I also that's really scary, though, Like I'm thinking of myself as, Like I'm thinking first of all, I can kind of put myself in both shoes, Like the person who doesn't want to say it but has to say it, and also the person who's receiving it. The reception is very difficult, Of course, Like knowing that the love that you're going through is in such deep, deep distress. It's like almost Is this really happening right now?

Di: 21:45

You know, or saying like I don't want to put this on the person I love, but I'm dealing with all this. So I mean this is like a really sensitive family situation.

Dr. Daniella Lang: 21:59

I think it's really important and I want everybody listening to know that we're going to provide resources to different help lines and different articles about common reactions to trauma. And I want I think it's important to not ask questions blindly but to know that there's help and, if someone were to express difficult feelings and thoughts, that there are places that you can call and I'm helping with a. I have a call after this with a different help line that I'll provide the information about that also. So we're trying to get the supports in play as this is all happening. But I think that's important to know that there's other secure supports in play.

Dr. Daniella Lang: 22:43

I also want to note that if you I like to use this example a lot with clients I like to think of people as, like, if you think of a toddler having a tantrum, if you tell them to calm down, like what are they going to do?

Dr. Daniella Lang: 22:58

If your child is screaming at the grocery store and you tell them to just calm down, I imagine that they're not going to really listen and they're going to continue on with their tantrum, and that's kind of when they're at that tantrum, that's kind of when they're at a 10 and overwhelmed and dysregulated, and I think it's important for us to check in with ourselves and use these different self-care strategies that might seem simple, like going to their room for a minute or making a phone call to help regulate ourselves at a more controllable level, like to go from a six to a five, or like making those little steps down that can feel more attainable than when you're already over your boiling point.

Dr. Daniella Lang: 23:43

So I think when I say check in with ourselves, I'm really kind of wanting people to consider doing that with themselves and with other people and what your symptoms are.

Dr. Daniella Lang: 23:57

I spoke with someone yesterday that said that they're they notice that they get like fidgety with their mouth and they kind of weird movements and that's they hold stress in their jaw and so once they start realizing that they were doing that, then they like to take some breaths, use some progressive muscle relaxation and kind of try to ground themselves before it gets to a point where they can't take it anymore and we can hold stress in different areas of our body, whether that be our jaw or a neck or a back, or I know a lot of people are having stomach aches right now or different body aches, difficulty sleeping. We need to take care of our basic needs first and foremost, or else our baseline is just automatically going to be on a higher level of stress, which we all already are right now. I think, first and foremost, we need to make sure that our basic needs are met, and like eating, sleeping and yeah.

Di: 24:56

Yeah, shelter the. The concept of like recognizing when you're at a five or a six, as opposed to just like finding yourself at 10, is so, so important. Like I really want to stress what you're saying, because I'm actually sitting here trying to understand where, what my five and six is, how interesting like this is. This is a huge, important invitation also to keep the relationships within your family or your social relationships or your work relationships, healthier, like, like you said before, you know, taking time for yourself, checking in, refilling that picture. You don't want to hit a 10 because I mean when you're 30 or 40 or 50, a tantrum isn't something that is as forgivable as when you are two or three or four and then look different for each person.

Dr. Daniella Lang: 26:05

So a lot of my work when I, when I'm doing this kind of, these kinds of interventions, we try to label what the different levels look at so that they can be aware and when they're not sitting with me or with a different therapist, they can recognize with themselves. Oh okay, I know that this happens and we sometimes write it down because, also when when we are like so emotional and at those higher levels, we often forget to use our basic coping skills. I talked to someone today that said that they couldn't even remember what their coping skills were, and so we made a list so that they could visually have it and know where it is, and so we made a list so that they could have something to look at. I think those things might seem simple, but they're so important, so important and to make the personalized plan for each person. So some of these questions are hard to answer in a global level because we need to make the interventions tailored to each individual person.

Di: 27:08

And that's also really important because when, when you're seeking help, then this is also like we're giving people pointers, like you want to recognize these things and if and hopefully if your therapist isn't or the person who's supporting you isn't really aware of these coping mechanisms, then you know you now have tools and you can actually help navigate everybody towards this and what. In a family that's been through trauma and relationships and you know different people and it's so complex, how do you recommend that someone react to another person at a 10? And it could, I mean you could talk about a mother with a child who like right now, you know, at a time of war I'm not, I'm not talking about you know, just mommy, child kind of thing, that's. That's a whole other topic, I think. When everybody's in a traumatic situation, like how does one support another? It could be a spouse, it could be your kids, it just it could be, you know, a much broader family situation. But what would you advise?

Dr. Daniella Lang: 28:44

I think that we people really need to try to take a step back a little bit if they can, and not react so like, for example I'm just thinking of people maybe yelling at each other in the house, I don't know, I guess it depends on what the 10 looks like, right? So if someone is expressing that they they want to hurt themselves or someone else, I would say, call helpline immediately and get some kind of care, and we'll provide information about those services later to make sure that everyone has knows about that, because that's the most important. I guess it depends what the 10 looks like and how dangerous they are, but I think it's important to not judge someone else to. I mean, I'm wondering what you're thinking the 10.?

Di: 29:38

I'm you know that's really important like to say what is the 10 look like? Because I, of course, am totally just thinking about my four and a half year old's tantrum, but, right, like, you've been exposed to things that that are way, way, way, way beyond that. So, let's, let's be more specific If it's, if it is an issue of really harming someone, of course that is picking up the phone, getting getting to a safe place, either yourself or I mean. There's that, there's resources for that.

Dr. Daniella Lang: 30:15

We're specifically going to interrupt you for a second, sorry. I think that if you're not able to get someone to help because times are so, so incredibly difficult right now, I think it's important to watch someone who is in such distress and take all of, try to figure out what their triggers are and what. And that said, what? What is it that they look at? Or one, is it that they feel the worst? Like? Is it in the morning? What is it about the morning? Are there like dangerous objects around them, whether it be a razor that they used to shave their legs, or scissors that they used to cut paper with? Like I would just if, if you're really seen that I would just be careful and try to remove those difficult objects and sit with the person and keep an eye on them until you can get more help.

Di: 31:20

I think that's true. And then, of course, and then, once you can get help, you immediately reach out.

Dr. Daniella Lang: 31:30

And there's help lines. But in other cases I think it's important to look out for changes in behavior. I think with children it's really common that they might be regressing right now or might be clingy. They might not be able, they might not have the verbal ability to express their feelings about what's going on because it's not they aren't able to, it's not, they're not at that developmental level or it's too much, and I think a lot of adults are having difficulty expressing what they're feeling right now?

Dr. Daniella Lang: 32:03

So I think it's important to just know that and know that a lot of these reactions are normal reactions to really abnormal situations, and that's why we're seeing people acting out in various ways. I think oftentimes, yeah, validating someone's experience and sitting next to them is really important, because people feel that they're often feel that they're going crazy and they'll ask is this normal Is this normal If someone is like in a full-on panic attack.

Di: 32:40

Okay, let's say that's their 10. And you don't think that they're going to harm anyone. They're just having literally just sitting there hyperventilating. Really good question. What would be thank you, what would be the response that would be most appropriate?

Dr. Daniella Lang: 33:02

I would say something that can be really helpful is getting ice, if you can, or something cold and putting it on your neck, whether it be like a cold water bottle or an ice pack or one piece of ice. I think it's really important to ground, to help people ground themselves. Oftentimes they feel like they're out of their body or it's too much and we call it dissociating. We need to bring people back to the present moment, which it sounds like you do that with your. You use mindfulness as the tool for yourself to come back to the present moment. But I think sometimes people smell like you. Can you smell to ground yourself? Because it's such a. It's connected to the amygdala and it really connects to emotions quickly or tactile and like this. I like, like when I was helping survivors in Washington DC, some of them were experiencing panic attacks when we were talking to, just when they were reliving and expressing their different stories to different politicians, they were reliving their trauma and we had ice packs like with us so that we could make sure to give it to them and it helped a lot of them kind of get back to them. It kind of shocks them into getting back to them.

Dr. Daniella Lang: 34:25

Other techniques that you can use to help yourself if you don't. When you're at a lower level or kind of just making note of the things that are going on around you, like going through the senses and thinking, okay, what am I seeing right now? What am I hearing right now? What temperature am I? Is it like how? What's the temperature? What's what am I smelling? Just kind of get to your senses, to kind of feel like you're back in your body, I think is really important.

Dr. Daniella Lang: 35:02

I also think movement is incredibly important. Anything that resets the polyvagal nerve and kind of brings us back to ourselves and I think movement is really important in your work is so can be so helpful in these times because we have to like get our the energy out. Sometimes we don't realize how much tension we're holding in our bodies. And another thing that I really like is progressive muscle relaxation. I don't know if you've ever done it or heard of it, I think. Sometimes I think mindfulness is a really helpful tool, but I think it's. It's really really helpful, especially when you've already trained that muscle in your brain.

Dr. Daniella Lang: 35:48

So mindfulness and unfortunately I think not everybody has, so sometimes it's people feel they do mindfulness that oh, I'm doing it wrong because I can't stop thinking about everything and my thoughts and it's not helpful and yeah, like if you go to the gym once it's it's not going to, you're in all, your goals aren't going to be met. So a lot of us don't have that muscle flex right now. But I think something that can be really helpful is progressive muscle relaxation, and I can give links to different yeah could you?

Di: 36:20

could you say a few words about it?

Dr. Daniella Lang: 36:22

Yeah, so progressive muscle relaxation is essentially like scanning your body and you can start wherever. There's no, again, no right or wrong way to do it, but a lot of the different videos and audio recordings that I've heard kind of have you go through each part of your body and breathe in and tense up as much as you possibly can, oh, like like tense up as much as you possibly can and then release as you take a breath out, and that helps people a lot to realize how much tension they're actually holding in their body. And it's something that you can do anywhere. People don't even have to see that you're doing it. You can tense here Like I often work. I've worked with a lot of students that do that when they're sitting in class and a stressful exam, and I mean, this is obviously a different thing that we're going through, but I think it can be really helpful because it's not so much in your mind, it's more physical.

Di: 37:22

Yeah, actually, this is. That's one of the main ways I love ending. I have this way of training I call it mindfulness, strength flow where it's really a strength workout focused on body weight, but we really kind of connect the breath, very, very highly focused on the breath, and it's more of a flow. So it's almost like, I guess I would say, a combo between power Pilates and power yoga, but the point is really to just work out in a flow very focused on the breath and the connection between the breath and the movement. We end exactly the way you just described, because it's an hour of tension and then just making sure that we totally relax, tensing as you inhale and then fully, fully exhaling as you completely release your body. And I can honestly say that for me personally and for what I see around me when I train I think at this point maybe hundreds of people I see their reaction as very, very, very calming to that. So thank you for pointing that out. I want to add one thing.

Dr. Daniella Lang: 38:43

I think that it could be really helpful for people that are at a 10, but also really helpful for people that I'm seeing, a lot of people right now that are feeling very numb and it almost looks like they're not, like they have a blank stare, and I think that that's really important to recognize also, that some people are just not sure what's going on, and I think that the same tools can also help them. They might be at a 10, but it might look totally different and they're expressing it completely differently, and I think, it's.

Dr. Daniella Lang: 39:18

Yeah, there's a lot of variation in this.

Di: 39:23

Right. We can't actually know what's going on inside. When you see a person having a panic attack, does it make sense to validate anything at that point, or is really the only thing just grounding them in the sensory way that you were talking about?

Dr. Daniella Lang: 39:48

I think that when someone is in that panic state they're not really going to be able to process. If you're giving them feedback about what they're like, for example, if you tell them calm down, do that they're not going to. They can't take some of those things in. They need to be grounded. But also I think listening can be grounding as well, and just sitting next to them and giving them a hug, maybe, or holding.

Dr. Daniella Lang: 40:22

I just think it's not really helpful to talk at someone and tell them you need to be doing this right now, or why aren't you doing this?

Dr. Daniella Lang: 40:31

That's not helpful in those situations, but I think sometimes people are impulsive and really have all the best intentions in the world and it can oftentimes be not helpful. We have to be mindful to really what each individual needs and to try to sometimes maybe not be in people's way and take a break. I think a lot of us are in each other's space and we need to be together and have our own space Totally.

Di: 41:03

Totally, totally.

Dr. Daniella Lang: 41:07

I also want to say that it's really common for people to maybe have some reactions to certain sounds or be a little bit jumpy. I know that today, when it was raining and I heard the wind kind of got noticed myself a little bit on edge because it kind of sounds for anyone that's heard the sirens it kind of sounds like what the beginning of the siren looks like, and so I think that that's something to be mindful of now, but also in the future, that we might kind of find ourselves later on feeling like we're back in what we're living now. So I think this is going to be a long process and recovery.

Di: 41:58

Yeah, like right now, it's totally what's happening.

Dr. Daniella Lang: 42:04

I don't think we yeah, like you said, we don't really understand what's happening to us, we just need to survive right now and make sure that we're safe and be as grounded as we possibly can and regulate ourselves as we can and accept that we're probably not going to feel completely ourselves for a little while and it's really hard.

Di: 42:32

Wow, the acceptance aspect of it and the, like you said, the sitting with uncertainty is it's hard. It's really really hard. And I think what you're doing right now, when you're talking like you're validating the, the uncertain, like in terms of, yes, this is an uncertain time and also it's it's so collective, so it's like we're all dealing with it, which kind of makes it a tiny bit easier.

Dr. Daniella Lang: 43:07

Yeah, I also want to add that a lot of people are feeling guilty for where they're at and feeling like, oh, I shouldn't. I think it's really not helpful for people to think that they should or shouldn't be doing something. I think that those words, those extreme words, can, can be I mean, our words are really powerful and I think that can be can have a really negative impact if we think and if we're judging ourselves in that way, and oftentimes the judgment that we give to ourselves is really minimal, but it adds up over time. And, just like we shouldn't tell other people how they should or shouldn't be right now, we need to give ourselves that same grace. And it's hard. I'm finding myself like, like I said, I was when in other times when I've helped in mass crisis efforts, I helped I don't know, maybe 20 to 30 plus, I don't know countless people per day.

Dr. Daniella Lang: 44:02

And now I can, right now I can maybe see maximum two to three people and that kind of seems like a lot right now. And I I do have some feelings of guilt, but I'm trying to take care of myself the best I can and I know, yeah, I know there'll be plenty of work for me, unfortunately for a while, but I think we just need to to be mindful of that.

Dr. Daniella Lang: 44:29

And yeah, it's tough and every they're like it kind of feels like a roller coaster of emotions for all of us. Yeah.

Di: 44:40

I have another extreme emotion. The, the, the. Until yesterday, I actually felt like I was going through the stages of grief, like every day was actually so different.

Dr. Daniella Lang: 44:58

I think I was what do you experience Like what makes you say that?

Di: 45:02

I was really calm and cool and collected the first day or two and and then I really feel like and again, this is not something that I'm super familiar with the stages but I did feel extremely angry. You can even see it like on my Instagram, you can see like the different posts, and I was looking. I was looking at it today in response to actually a very, very judgmental comment that I had received on LinkedIn. So I was looking so I could see I was very angry at one point and then I was completely devastated.

Di: 45:53

Actually, the, the, the full blown devastation that I had the other day came from me listening to recordings of people who are trying to get ahold of their loved ones and they get cut off, and I'm I'm thinking that had such an impact on me. I know I can't see the videos because the effect it has on me is is so extreme and I mean that that must contribute to trauma, even though I'm not in it. But I am hearing it and I am. You know, if someone, like people around me, they're they're telling me did you see the video of this, of this, of this? And I'm like, oh my God, no, but I'm thinking you did and so you can't unsee that and I'm wondering if does, does that contribute to the trauma?

Dr. Daniella Lang: 46:54

Of course. Yeah, I mean, I think that people have different reactions to different events, right. So I think that some people might be able to watch those videos and it might help in some way. But I think we need to be really careful and having those images in our mind can be really triggering, and we have to make sure to take breaks from watching news. I think watching news all day is not helpful right now. I also think it's important to not. I think it's it's common for people to maybe feel survivor's guilt if they aren't there. I know some of my friends that that happen to be out of the country feel a little guilty that they're not here, and I think that that's a whole other kind of trauma that people are experiencing and it's it's normal.

Dr. Daniella Lang: 47:43

I think there's vicarious trauma, like we can feel trauma when we, when we see that people around us are traumatized there's it's really complex and I think, absolutely, and I think there's warning, there's warnings going around. I sent a warning to the school that I used to work at in Florida to tell them that these videos were about to be posted and to. I mean it's global, the actual, these videos, unfortunately, and I think parents need to be careful and mindful and make sure that to monitor what their kids are watching, because unfortunately there's so much access to these horrible, horrific images. But at the same time, I one could argue that it's important for people to see the reality of what's happening. So a lot of times, like psychologists always joke that the answer to everything is it depends, but it's kind of right, yeah, but it's the truth, yeah.

Di: 48:46

Yeah, the. So looking at parents, and what kind of signs do you think that parents need to look out for and how they can recognize trauma in their children and also distinguish between trauma and regular childhood behaviors? That's a tough question.

Dr. Daniella Lang: 49:25

I would be really. I would first of all look, take note of how they're, of their basic needs, and make sure that that they're being met and that they're. If there's any changes in eating habits or sleeping, I would see if there's any regressions. I would also monitor and see what themes might be coming out in their play that might come out later on, like you might notice something in their drawings or in their imagine, like in their imaginary play, that might show you different themes of of what their internal world is going through.

Dr. Daniella Lang: 50:06

I think it's really important to take note of if they're you're feeling that they're really angry or not wanting to act, not wanting to follow the rules, being really clingy. Like I said, any change. I think, and I think it's important to meet your child where they're at and not give them too much information, but give it to them at at their level and open the space for them to ask questions about what's happening and try to answer as best as you can on a level that they can understand. I think it's often not so helpful to not tell children what's going on, because I think that children, even if you're not telling them what's going on even infants, I think can notice change in the atmosphere.

Di: 50:57

Yeah, yeah, we're starting to kind of talk a little bit, tiny, tiny bit more openly to our four and a half year old, just because she intuitively, like we're, we're going with her intuition. So it's very interesting for me as a parent to and you know this because I talked to you about this that I was like really not revealing anything, but of course you want to protect your child and you should.

Dr. Daniella Lang: 51:30

you shouldn't tell them everything that's going on, but you should tell them, right?

Di: 51:36

but then and then, and of course you know when you know she's out playing with her friends and then we all collectively, when there was a siren, were going to shelter. So she notices more things and she's also aware of the big things that come after the siren and and you know so. So the awareness is is becoming a lot higher and so we intuitively, intuitively, really are, are she intuitively, is saying things and we're just going with it. So she's kind of actually leading the way for us.

Di: 52:19

I think that's, that's a really good approach.

Dr. Daniella Lang: 52:22

You're meeting her where she's at. I think it's important for children to be able to trust their surroundings and I think trying to keep some normalcy in all this can be helpful for children and adults, like doing some kind of a routine or structure to the day. Especially, it's because they really rely on that.

Di: 52:47

Yeah, yeah, and you can't be completely yeah, where were you going?

Dr. Daniella Lang: 52:53

to stand. I don't even remember. I think difficulty focusing is another big thing that we're all experiencing Right, absolutely.

Di: 53:08

So so the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the Three levels the indicates a period of thirsty, right, that's the control that you're going to be. Period of thirst and the 술 industry. So hey, where were you going to stand?

Dr. Daniella Lang: 53:22

Yeah, in general, the main thing at the moment we're just kind of we're going to get used to the fact that that a lot of times in general, we're going to sometimes have to make up ourized decision of being立y Dis жизndi or being very, very gayätzlich parents. I work with them to to make mood or the way that they're responding to you and other people, and be really careful. I also will link resources from the National Child Stress and Trauma Association. I think I'm butchering that acronym, but there's really helpful information there with a lot more details that I think can be. There's different handouts, resources for different ages, because, right like, adolescents are obviously gonna show it differently than second grader, so I think it's important to recognize that as well and to be understanding of where your child's at about monthly and then, also take note of differences.

Di: 54:37

And so, like also, I guess the example that comes to my mind is is, you know, an extrovert suddenly turning into an introvert? That would be extreme, I guess, but things like that.

Dr. Daniella Lang: 54:54

Or more fight, like more little arguments with their parents or not wanting to talk to their friends or feeling like things that they used to enjoy doing. They're not, they're not wanting to do them anymore Big changes in their mood and what they're just face and energy feels like. It's important to note too. I sometimes people say, oh, they're fine, they're not saying anything about what's going on. But not everybody has the ability or or needs to express their emotions verbally, and I think some people forget that, and so we have to take note of nonverbal cues also.

Di: 55:41

Absolutely.

Dr. Daniella Lang: 55:42

It could be. A group like the loudest person is isn't feeling as intensely as the quiet person in the room. Like we just need to know of, like everybody's nonverbal cues.

Di: 56:00

Yeah, that's that's really important.

Dr. Daniella Lang: 56:05

Yeah, they're not experiencing something and just because they're loud doesn't necessarily mean that they're experiencing it more than someone else.

Di: 56:16

And really important yeah.

Dr. Daniella Lang: 56:21

Yeah, and it's all going to change over time. Someone might be okay and next week they're not. And I am glad that you said you spoke about grief, because I think that's another really, really important part of this, and grief isn't necessarily linear. You can go back and forth between the different stages of grief. That can be another topic, but I think that's really important to note.

Di: 56:50

That's really, really important to know. I did not know that. That that's you know how it, how it can act, and probably, now that you say that, that's probably how it manifests itself.

Dr. Daniella Lang: 57:05

Yeah, it's kind of like well, all like psychological progress is kind of not completely linear, Right, but I agree, particularly like you might find yourself being in denial again or feeling really angry again, and that's okay, it doesn't mean that you're doing it wrong or regressing, or yeah, it's just it's just natural. Yeah, I know, I wish that, that I had a magic wand and the right words to say to fix it all, but it's just not the case.

Dr. Daniella Lang: 57:43

I think people have can't think about what therapists I think. People think that therapists have the magic pill or the magic wand to fix all these things, and I wish we did.

Di: 57:58

I remember I had, I was dealing with postpartum depression and I just wanted someone to like give me the magic something, the magic word promise me it's gonna be okay, like you know. But no, it's, it's, it's work and it's reaching out. It's a lot of reaching out and and you were mentioning that you're gonna I'm gonna link a whole bunch of resources. Whatever Dr Lang sends my way, I will link to the notes of this podcast episode, and so please, please please provide.

Dr. Daniella Lang: 58:43

I'm happy to provide my contact information. Also, if people have questions or want to talk to someone, I can maybe help to connect them.

Di: 58:52

Yes, provide other resources, please, okay, thank you. So yeah, because reaching out, that's that's really important and even if you like circling back to what we were saying, even if you do feel like if you reach out to the closest person to you is going to be too much of a burden, then then you've got these resources.

Dr. Daniella Lang: 59:15

That's a really good point, and you need to be able to walk alongside each other through these hard times and, yeah, one, one foot at a time. But all best we can do is kind of stand by each other.

Di: 59:32

Right, and also, like you, you just said that, but it's so important Saying one foot at a time. That's so, so important, because, looking at the whole picture which you don't know, you don't know the whole picture, and it's so huge that we can't possibly comprehend what that even means or what's going to happen tomorrow, unfortunately, Right.

Di: 59:57

But and that, and trying to take a step back and trying to look at everything, when you can't cause so much anxiety, that really just understanding, like you again, I'm just repeating stuff that you've already said but understanding that this is the situation and just feeling the the what we need to do right now, like the next second is this and the next second is this. And I mean that you know I hate to say this, but that can really get a person through the day. Yeah, I hate to say it because it sounds it sounds white.

Di: 1:00:42

No, it sounds like let's just get through the day, which is such a difficult thing to say, but when times are tough, it kind of is is the feeling.

Dr. Daniella Lang: 1:00:56

Yeah, yeah, taking a look around and seeing where you're at and getting back in your body, like we said before, and yeah, stuff.

Di: 1:01:09

I know you have a call coming up and you're continuing to work after our conversation, so I want to really thank you so deeply for showing up at this time and you're providing all this information and knowledge and support. Really.

Dr. Daniella Lang: 1:01:32

Thank you so much. I hope it could make a difference even for one person listening so.

Di: 1:01:37

I'm sure, or she should. Thank you.