Challenges of Being LGBTQ+ and Jewish

Di 0:22

Welcome to a very special and Bodyholic with Di . I'm your host , Di , and today we have an incredible guest joining us as we explore the challenges of being gay , jewish and Israeli amidst the ongoing conflict of the Hamas-Israel War . I am excited and thrilled to welcome Shachar Koyn to the show . Shahar is a comedy social media content creator widely known for his hilarious America vs Israel videos . However , he has taken a shift in his content to provide us with a deeper understanding of Israel's side of the war . As a proud gay Jew , shachar brings a unique perspective to the table , highlighting the intersectionality of identities in the face of adversity . So together , he and I talk and walk through the complexities of identity , politics and personal experiences during this major conflict . Shahar's intelligence and charisma will keep you informed , entertained and enlightened throughout our conversation , I promise .

Di 1:39

I invite you to join us on this journey of discovery and empathy Now . By subscribing to the podcast , you'll gain access to engaging episodes just like this one , where we explore diverse perspectives and shed light on important issues . Subscribe now to stay updated with our latest episodes as we continue to embrace the power of conversation in navigating through the complexities of our world , with the emphasis on well-being . Okay , let's hear Shachar's voice that challenges stereotypes , celebrates diversity and encourages understanding . Shahar Cohen , I am so happy to have you here with me today . Thank you .

Shahar 2:26

Sure . Thank you for inviting me .

Di 2:30

It's really a pleasure and I want to start off by just asking you to give me a few words about yourself so people know who we are lucky to be talking to right now . And yeah , let's start with that , with just a few words .

Shahar 2:48

Okay , so I'm actually the super regular person . Nothing special . But two and a half years ago I started making videos on social media that became really viral , just showing really quickly the comparison between how life used to be and how they are today . And then another very successful series that I did comparing America to Israel , and when I did America versus Israel , I had many people from America and around the world starting to follow me . But yeah , I'm a content creator . I also have , like my job at high tech , and now I shifted all of my content to really explaining the Israeli Hamas Palestine conflict to , I don't know , make people understand our side of the story .

Di 3:46

And yeah , I think , yeah , we're both . We both have that in common . It was so important for me to reach out to you specifically . I've had as well . I've shifted you're actually the last person that I'm interviewing regarding this and then I'm going to get back to nutrition and sports and well being but it was actually crucial for me to get you onto the podcast , because your situation is a little bit more specific and exclusive and I'm very curious regarding how the ongoing conflict with Hamas has affected you , as not only a Jewish Israeli man , but you're a Jewish , gay Israeli man , and , considering the global response from the LGBTQ community being largely not only pro Palestine but also anti Israel , I'm super interested in hearing what you have to say .

Shahar 4:55

Yeah . So this is a really good question . I'm very relevant to what we're going through right now . For me , it's really questioning because when you talk to these organizations every day , when there's no Israeli Hamas conflicts , so the those organizations are really neutral , non political . They don't care about , like , specific political situation or a country , they just they are just for gay rights . So now , when it's about Israel , when we're asking those organizations , are you okay ? You're pro Palestinians , that's okay . Everyone wants the Palestinians to have good lives . But are you unwilling ? Are you willing ? Sorry , I'm willing to condemn Hamas . You're for the Palestinian , that's okay . Are you willing to condemn Hamas , which is a Leadership that is anti-gay ? They actually , if you're Sleeping with a gay person , like if you're , you're like have gay sex , you go in prison for ten years . You have Hamas Leadership killing people on the streets because they're gay .

Di 6:13

So we actually will . Well , I actually didn't know this . They'll put you in prison .

Shahar 6:18

For ten , for up to ten years , yeah , so , wow , okay . Yeah , you have like people on the streets checking if you're gay or not . They need to , like the gay people in Gaza , need to hide Themselves to not get in prison or killed , because we know that Hamas is not really about what's legal or not . So if they won , they will kill a person that is gay and like you , go to these like Pro LGBT , like organizations around the world , and you ask them okay , you're pro-Palestinian people , that's okay , but are you willing to condemn Hamas and Understand that Hamas is not good for the Palestinians people , especially for the gay ? And they're not just silent , they're silent and Like , when you compare it to Israel where we have gay rights I mean , israel is isn't perfect , okay , we have a way to go , but we are on an amazing progress in the past 30 years but they're just not like , not willing to hear that . And this is really questioning to me the unwillingness to condemn Hamas in this situation .

Di 7:30

Mm-hmm , that's , that's amazing , like I didn't actually know about the Looking for whether you're gay or not and then . But I mean , I know , I know of killings , but wow .

Shahar 7:52

And it's you know what . I'll just add . We're talking about LGBTQ here , but you see it also with women , with women that are being raped and like when you try to get like a Respond from the women organization , women rights organization around the world , they are , they are also silent . And how are the women of Israel are supposed to feel when there are silence from , like , the women organizations around the world ? This is also really questioning and really Revealing the anti Israel behind it and not like the pro women , pro LGBTQ .

Di 8:30

Right , right , right . The anti about the whole thing , the , the for me as a woman , you know , I I really Empathize and and outraged , together with my fellow Israeli women and and Jewish Women , because this is , this is affecting All of us globally . If you're Jewish and gay , if you're Jewish and a woman , if you're Jewish , period , this is affecting us Because and being anti Zionist , I'm gonna say this is and , by the way , I don't think I understood this , I'm gonna like that , I'm coming clean here . I don't think I understood this until October 7th , that being anti Zionist is Together with being an anti-Semite . And I keep seeing what . What are you gonna say ?

Shahar 9:26

No , yeah , it's a rebranding of Anti Jewish , anti Israel . They're just saying anti Zionist because they need to be politically correct on social media , right , but we all know what being a Zionist men means . Like we are , like we all know , the Holocaust happened and we had six million Jewish people killed in Europe and we had nowhere place to go but Israel . So this is being a Zionist . This is a home for all Jewish people so they can leave peacefully without like being threatened to be like dead , like in the Holocaust . And now they are saying like , like they're using the phrase anti Zionist . I actually had a video about it and and and like okay , so break it down for me . What is what ? What does anti Zionist mean ? And Usually also , when you ask those people , what do you mean by free Palestine ? Why do you mean like with from the river to the sea ? What do you mean by anti Zionist ? They don't know how to break it down for you and this is also very questioning to me .

Di 10:38

Yeah , yeah , and and so I agree with everything you're saying , and and what I'm saying is also like , as a woman , that that's my perspective . I feel extremely betrayed , very scared of the world . Like you know , for me , traveling is part of my life , but right now I'll be honest I have no interest in stepping out of Israel right now , for fear of Just being who I am and and knowing that my , my girls , don't have my back , and and so that's . It was very important for me to bring you on , because I don't have the gay man Israeli perspective for me , but but I feel like Betrayed for you . You know what I mean .

Shahar 11:35

Like it's like yeah , so it's like Ever since October 7th , we feel like the gay people , we feel like we had like this amazing global group . Like everyone comes to Tel Aviv on June for gay parade . Everyone comes to Ophelni Sim four times a year for this like big techno party . And this is like and now , ever since October 7th , it's like the world regarding like LGBTQ sorry is silent and we feel like we disconnected from this group that is supposed to be for all the things that we believe in . And actually , when an Israeli comes for like an argument with the pro-Palestinians , like a gay Israeli guy is saying to his like friends in the world , we come and we say like hey , guys , we are pro-Palestinian , gay people , LGBTQ , pro-Palestinian .

Shahar 12:43

Will you be willing to like agree that the problem is not the Palestinian people , especially the gay Palestinian people . The problem is Hamas ? Are you just only willing to like condemn them to help us bring better lives to the Palestinian people ? Why are they not willing to say that ? Why are they not willing to accept that ?

Shahar 13:11

And this is like it's really questioning for me because , like why do you come here every year to Tel Aviv and like party and like enjoy the gay life in Tel Aviv and then when we're at a war , it's like cooler for you to be like pro-Palestinian , Like that's how we feel , that's how we feel . I would really appreciate a good argument with , like , a pro-Palestinian LGBTQ member . I would appreciate it and I would even upload it on my page if he says like concrete things about the situation here . But usually what happens is that they're not willing to talk any sense , to listen to you . You bring them proof . They're like whatever , we don't care about it . So like yeah , it's not an intelligent conversation . It's not an intelligent conversation and if it was , I would happily talk to them every day about it .

Di 14:18

Yeah , that's exactly right . There it's . It is a non-intelligent conversation .

Shahar 14:26

And even what's really kind of driving me crazy is what we saw with the three presidents of the top universities in the United that , like even they couldn't hold a intelligent conversation or answer , because you know , like I didn't want to really get into this , but you know , like the Ivy League , like universities in America , many of them are like funded by Qatar , and we all know behind the scenes you have like the Qatar , iran , hamas everyone are together in this . So , when money is involved , really when , like , when you talk LGBTQ , it's not supposed to be about money , because we all came from discrimination , from hate , from murder . Like we all used to hide , like I talked to , like friends , gay people that are 70 years old right now . When they were my age , they used to party in Israel like underground . We went through a lot . Now , like gay parties are very big in Israel . Everyone can see them .

Shahar 15:36

We went through such a long way and now having money involved in LGBTQ around the world , this is sickening to me . This is sickening to me . Wow , like are you ? Are you , do you live in peace ? Like having money involved when you have like gay people murdered in Gaza actually right now , or like gay people even use as human shields right now , also for you know what , also for the human shields thing . Okay , let's stop talking for one minute about LGBTQ .

Hamas, LGBTQ Rights, and Hope

Shahar 16:09

Why , when you come to pro-Palestinians around the world and you tell them that Hamas is using people as human shields . Why do you ignore that fact ? We are repeating it over and over again To deliver this crazy message of using people as human shields . Like why are people so blind to this ? This is so questioning to me .

Di 16:34

Like why , you know , the IDF is asking people to evacuate to certain places so that we can deal with the situation that we have found ourselves in , that we did not bring upon ourselves , that we have found ourselves in . Why do we even have to say anything ? How come Hamas , as the leadership , isn't taking the innocent civilians down underground and giving them shelter , exactly .

Shahar 17:04

And you can see the opposite happening in Israel , because Gaza is like Hamas is sending rockets from Gaza to Israel and when , and his father is actually sending rockets to the North right From Lebanon . We have our government evacuating all of the people in the North , all of the people in the South . They're not living in their neighborhoods , in their cities and we're like when there's a threat for lives in Israel , we just evacuate people to safe places . So we're asking Hamas do the same thing , and they're willing to do that . So why and why is the world not like talking about it ? Why ? Yeah , yeah , that's how I feel for the past . What are we ? December 8th , like two months in a day ever since our life has changed .

Di 18:03

You already touched on this a little bit , but I'm interested in general , like if you could just describe your life as a gay person in Israel and just how you feel in general .

Shahar 18:16

Yeah , so , as I said , the gay community in Israel . Sorry , when I'm saying gay I mean LGBTQ , okay , but I'm gay , so I'm going to talk about myself . So being gay in Israel hasn't always been easy . Okay , I grew up in Jerusalem 90s , 2000, . I was a teenager and I was bullied at school , but you know kids , but I can see I'm one of the people that saw the progress , ever since I was a kid to now 33 years old and actually in January 22, . We had , like it's now in law that we can access surrogacy legally as gay people . We used to do this only in the US or abroad . So every year there's a step forward for gay rights in Israel .

Shahar 19:11

It still isn't perfect , as I said , but I can start a family here . I can get married like . I can get married like officially , but we're getting there okay . But hey , I'm talking the truth and that's okay . So I can live everywhere I want . I'm accepted . Gay people go to the army . Gay people are in the government right now , like you have gay people everywhere . So living in Israel is actually an option for me . Yes , I'm an international person , so I thought about moving , living somewhere else in the world , like every person does . But if I want , I can live in Israel , start a family , get married , go party . I live like right next to all of the cool parties in Israel . I go to a gay bar with my friends every week . So actually living in Israel is very fun for me as a gay person and I can actually have an option of living here as who I am .

Shahar 20:13

And when I compare that to Gaza , they can say the same thing . Because they are all living in fear . They can't expose that they're gay and if they will , they will not exist or go in prison and everyone needs to know that . Everyone needs to know that fact before they are blindly supporting Hamas . And I think you know what . I think most of our focus as Israelis right now need to be on the world condemning Hamas . We don't need to go and say , hey , you should hate the Palestinians . No , we should condemn Hamas because they are the ones that are using his human shields , whatever , everything . Yeah , absolutely .

Di 21:01

Absolutely . That's exactly why I don't understand why there's a pro-Palestine , anti-israel thing . This is much larger and much more meta . There is this organization that is not good for their own people , not good for us people , that's funded by people a little further away from us , and they're very , very dangerous for humanity .

Shahar 21:30

And you already see interviews on the streets in Gaza of people that are brave , okay , that are talking and condemning Hamas . They're really brave because if Hamas finds them right now , they're going to kill them . They're going to kill them .

Di 21:44

Yeah , they're very brave and it's starting to come out . Yeah .

Shahar 21:51

I also wanted to add that one of the strategies I did in my latest videos is right in the title . I used to do American girls in a pro-Palestinian rally . So in order to separate people from Palestine and Hamas , I added on my video a pro-Palestine and Hamas rally . Why did I do that ? Because I wanted people to say wait , wait , wait . I'm not for Hamas , I'm against the Palestinians . And the minute that I did that , I changed the conversation , because I think one of the mistakes that we do as Israel to explain our situation is , just like pro-Palestinians are bad , I want them to say we are pro-Palestinians but we're against Hamas .

Di 22:39

Yeah , did you see . Did you see the comments ?

Shahar 22:42

change . Yeah , I saw People started writing down . Why do people think that if I'm pro-Palestinian , I'm also pro-Hamas ? And that's exactly what I wanted to get from my followers . My followers are usually pro-Israel , but the people that view my videos that are pro-Palestinian . I want them to break it down for me and say no , I'm not for Hamas , I'm for Palestinians .

Di 23:10

And , yeah , this is very important and I also think that there's a lot of ignorance around this specific and I come from . I mean , I've been sharing my views so much that I'm not even concerned that I don't think we have a choice , but to have a two-state solution , like I always believe this and now I believe it even more , like we have to have Palestine and we have to have an Israel , and so that makes me pro Palestine and pro Israel , and it's so much more complex than social media is making it , than the international media is making it , the official media like BBC and CNN and Sky .

Shahar 24:00

I think like BBC are really the worst right they are the worst .

Di 24:06

BBC is like hilariously ignorant .

Shahar 24:10

yeah , yeah and like now , you know like , we have this SNL Israeli version called Eretz Nehederet , where they , like , they do a parody . Everyone saw it on BBC . Sometimes I'm confused with , like , seeing an actual BBC then seeing like an Eretz Nehederet , because it's like the same to me , because they're not even exaggerating , they're not even exaggerating .

Di 24:35

It's like exactly what it is , oh my God , exactly what it is , oh my God . This is the world we're living in Right now .

Shahar 24:41

Oh , my God .

Di 24:43

Oh my God . So I think I wanna ask you one more question , and about how do you move forward now with your sense of belonging in the LGBTQ community and so , like , what is what's ? I guess you don't really know what's next for you in terms of that , but what do you feel right now ?

Shahar 25:10

So being gay , being a part of LGBTQ community , was always a fight . Right , because we all always needed to fight for our rights and tell the world that is not LGBTQ most of it , that we need to have our rights . Now it's not only fighting and like shouting our message to people that are non-LGBTQ . It's also fighting from within . Right , because you need to talk to people that are in your group and tell them why they are wrong . So , first of all , I think it's really exhausting right now because you're like wait , do I need to focus my energy on talking to people that are non-LGBTQ to fight for LGBTQ , or I need to educate the LGBTQ members that are against me ? So one of the things that we always know as gay people is never give up , right ? The people that 40 years ago in Israel , used to party in shelters so they won't be seen are now proud to party outside in the biggest gay parade in the world . So we should also not give up now . We should continue doing what we're doing .

Shahar 26:34

We're a minority , right . We have , like , I don't know , I don't think all Muslims are pro-Palestine , but whatever . Let's take these numbers there are 2 . Whatever , billion Muslims in the world . We have 15 million Jews . We're a minority , but we never gave up , also as Israelis and Jewish people . After the Holocaust happened , we didn't give up and we have a wonderful country and we need to keep delivering our truths all the time and just hope that sense will come into play and that good will win . I really believe in it and that's actually my only hope , like talk sense to people , talk truth to people and eventually They'll get the message .

Shahar 27:31

They'll internalize the message , the Asimon will fall .

Di 27:40

Wow , I love that message . I believe that message . In fact , I'll tell you I didn't , I was , I didn't , I was worried .

IDF's Moral Duty to Protect Lives

Di 27:52

In closer to October 7th I was genuinely worried about Jewish lives and but even talking to Holocaust survivors and talking to hollow double survivors who also survived October 7th , and listening to them .

Shahar 28:13

I know it's right .

Di 28:17

I think that they are saying something similar to what you are saying . Has it's like okay , we're going to be okay , we have to keep doing it our way , which is talking and what the IDF is doing right now . The IDF is protecting the Israeli civilians what , no matter what religion they are , but the people inside the Israeli borders from nothing like October 7th happening again .

Shahar 28:48

So we're important and if I can also add the angle of being gay in the army . Yes , IDF is the most moral army in the world and I'm proud for serving in the IDF . I also got recruited for a few days now during the war and I'm feeling proud , being proud a part of the IDF . And I'm being super proud because if I was on the other side I don't know how that would even work , because they're just on October 7 . They just went in and just killed bunch of people , innocent people . Idf will never do that . Idf is like Israel Defense Force . We never go and just kill innocent people , Just saying that . We have like a huge gay community , LGBT community , serving in the IDF right now . Really proud for serving in the IDF because we know how moral this army is , so it's really important also serving and and really really putting lives on the line , like in order to protect civilians .

Shahar 30:05

Like we can get into a .

Di 30:07

we're seeing like soldiers dying in Gaza every day , so every single day every morning when I wake up and I and I look at the news , I'm so scared to like I know I'm going to see another boy or man because really , now it's all ages and it's heartbreaking .

Di 30:27

It's heartbreaking . It's just so heartbreaking and I really actually I just realized that we're in the beginning of Hanukkah , though I was going to say I'm looking forward to lighter days , and then I realized that it's also the holiday of light , right ? And I remember in the beginning of this war , when the people who were being recruited , the civilians who were being recruited , were already asking for menorahs . They were saying like we're going to be here for a while .

Di 31:04

We've got a lot of work to do , right , and I didn't really . I was like no , no , no , you'll be home by that . Yeah , yeah that that didn't happen , but I hope we do see lighter days very , very soon . I hope so too , and you are a light . You really are .

Shahar 31:24

In better days I would do like Christmas versus Hanukkah like videos , but I just don't feel like doing them right now . But I just I will . We will celebrate Hanukkah with tears and we will . We will hope for a better Hanukkah in a year from now . Yeah ,