Bodyholic with Di | Your Health and Fitness Beyond Myths
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Bodyholic with Di | Your Health and Fitness Beyond Myths
Beyond the Baby Blues: Dr. Stephanie Bathurst's Holistic Approach to Pregnancy, Postpartum & Mental Well-being
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Can the right support during pregnancy and postpartum truly transform your family life? Join us for a deep dive with Dr. Stephanie Bathurst, clinical marriage and family therapist, and board-certified clinical sexologist, as we uncover the often overlooked aspects of prenatal mental health and relationship therapy. Together, we discuss early interventions and holistic approaches that reconnect women with their bodies and partners, paying special attention to the essential support partners need during this life-changing journey.
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Prenatal Mental Health and Relationship Therapy
Speaker 1Hi , I am so happy you are here with me today . You might also hear my baby in the background , which , as you will see in just a moment , it's super duper fitting . Our guest today is Dr Stephanie Bathurst . She is a highly accomplished and super recognized professional in the field of mental health and relationship therapy . She holds a license as a clinical marriage and family therapist in both Maryland and in Hawaii . She is a board certified clinical sexologist , having earned her doctoral degree in clinical sexology from the International Institute for Clinical Sexology in Miami Florida . International Institute for Clinical Sexology in Miami Florida . Dr Bathurst also holds a master's degree in marriage and family therapy , with a specialty in addictions . So Her commitment to supporting individuals and families extends to postpartum and mental health , where she provides compassionate care and effective treatment for women navigating the challenges of the postpartum period . I believe that you'll really feel this come across . She specializes in couples therapy . She helps partners build intimacy and connection . In this episode , you're going to hear practical advice on navigating the postpartum challenges both men and women experience . I'm also just going to say that in 2014 , dr Bathurst founded Bathurst Family Therapy . It's a practice that has become a trusted resource for those who are seeking healing and growth . Her exceptional work has earned her numerous accolades , including the prestigious Top Doctor Award in Maryland and in Washington DC and Virginia . Dr Bathurst is also an executive contributor at Brains Magazine . She shares her knowledge and insights on mental health and relationships , and she has been honored with the CREA Global Awards and Outstanding Leadership Award in Health in 2023 .
Speaker 1It was a pleasure talking to her . I believe that , uh , for me , on a personal level , it was very meaningful , and whether you are a man or a woman listening to this , I believe that it will also be very valuable to you as well . So sit back and Bodyholic with D , your one-stop shop for science-backed well-being breakthroughs . Forget the fads , ditch the myths . We are here to get you on the fast track to feeling and looking fantastic . So get ready to dive deep into the real deal on more health , happiness and everything in between . Let's go . Dr Stephanie Bathurst , thank you so much for joining me today . I am so excited after our last conversation .
Speaker 2Dee , thank you so much for having me . I'm really excited . I love the topic for today . I think we can both deeply connect to it . I hope that your listeners feel our passion about this , cause it really is so important .
Speaker 1Absolutely , absolutely . Thank you for saying that , um , and , by the way , I think they do , uh , in general . I think that's you know , that's where , when people feel that the conversation is very sincere and comes from a deep place , then there's connection . There's connection and that's really what it's all about , um . So let's talk about the topic , let's basically we're here to talk about prenatal mental health , to talk about how to prevent early interventions . We're going to really get into it . I have a few questions I want to ask you , but if you want to give a little bit of an introduction or just a thought before I actually start diving into questions , I would love it .
Speaker 2So I own a private practice out here in Oahu , hawaii , and we do .
Speaker 2We're pretty eclectic , we offer a number of different services , but when you break it down there , they all kind of support one another as a holistic , comprehensive approach to mental , relational and sexual health . And so I do see quite a number of women come into my office looking to stabilize their emotional well-being and also reconnect with their own bodies after delivery , after pregnancy , because it's an intense experience for your bodies . For a lot of women it can be both beautiful and traumatizing . And so we we work on herbal supplementation to support , like nutrient and mineral density , which all gets depleted when you're pregnant , right when you're giving your baby everything that you've got . And then we I also support the relationship as well to help bond again and reconnect when there's been such imbalance of hormones and emotions and the gender roles have significantly changed , at least for the period when breastfeeding is still happening , and there's just a lot going on . And so women really do deserve a holistic and comprehensive approach in all of these different domains that they need support in during this time .
Speaker 1Right , and this is so important and not clear to everyone . And why should it be ? Because when a woman becomes pregnant for the first time , she's becoming pregnant for the first time , and sometimes you don't like go out and seek the knowledge . You just kind of go with the flow and that's perfectly fine , but the thing is it can really be bombarding , like the moment you go from just being you know , you go from just being , you know , a bachelorette .
Speaker 1I'm air quoting uh to a mom . Right , that's , that's huge , um , yeah , and and the other thing that , uh , what you just said made me think of , is that the partner of the mother , uh , is also going through something , I guess , and and doesn't and also doesn't know exactly what to do . So there is a need , there is a need , and I think it's kind of scary to like not feel seen , I'm just thinking of myself and my friends and , um , I'm really speaking out of my personal thoughts , yeah , so I I remember my so my daughter's almost four um and I was pregnant during COVID , so all of the hospitals were kind of on lockdown .
Speaker 2My husband wasn't able to be . He literally wasn't allowed to be in any of the appointments and I was a bit of a high risk case so I had appointments like every week , Um , so just that alone was incredibly isolating . To have him be at home and me be at the appointments and receiving all the information and having to process it and remember everything and ask the right questions and , like you , really need to share the list . This is such an overwhelming and , for some people , very scary process and the imbalance is still very real and palpable for a lot of people .
Speaker 1Mm-hmm , mm-hmm . Oh my God , the COVID thing . Yeah , yeah , so I was second time around , I just went to everything alone , but the first time around I totally needed him with me . It was before COVID , and I can only imagine like the feeling of going to that alone , you know when . Yeah , absolutely Wow , you are so highly informed and experienced . I wanted you to perhaps elaborate on the state of research regarding the long-term impacts of untreated perinatal mental health on both mothers and children , and we can start there .
Speaker 2Yeah , we are diving right into , like , the seriously important bits and I hope this helps people ground in the importance of this discussion today , because it really is .
Speaker 2It infiltrates the entire system , right ? When something like so , first off , baby blues and postpartum depression , anxiety , psychosis , those are different things , right ? I think in the public they are conflated to become one which minimizes the effect or the seriousness of postpartum depression , anxiety psychosis 85% of women who have given birth experience some type of mood disruption , of women who have given birth experience some type of mood disruption , right ? So that's the total percentage . And 13 to 19% of those women will experience some clinically significant form of postpartum depression , anxiety , psychosis . And postpartum depression is different because one tends to last a lot longer , for some women all the way up to three years post delivery , which is an immense amount of time , and it tends to be more severe . So we definitely want to be mindful of the difference there . One in seven women develop postpartum depression , right ? Women develop postpartum depression , right , and those who have a history of major depressive disorder , borderline bipolar disorder , really any kind of mood disruption , organically have a 20 times higher risk of developing postpartum depression .
Speaker 1And although those numbers are really like scary , when you yeah , I was going to say they're scary really like scary when you say they're scary .
Speaker 2We , as , like , providers in the field , can use that so much because we we can kind of automatically flag somebody based on their history If they are likely to develop this . And if we can flag them early on , we can involve the rest of the system . We can boost them with as much support as possible , like , ideally , grocery lists from a nutritionist or checklists of symptoms to hang on the refrigerator so other people walking around can be aware , because when you're in it , you're in it . You can't always pop out of the moment to clearly reflect on if your behavior is normal or if something's wrong , and that's a responsibility that really has to fall on the support system around you and the providers that are in your network . So , yeah , I mean I think there needs to be a lot more education within the system itself , more education within the system itself .
Speaker 2New moms are just totally immersed in survival mode that they mistrust themselves a lot of times or they're just kind of on autopilot , feeling a bit like a zombie , and they're not processing information effectively , and that's just .
Speaker 2That's part of like the structural changes in the brain and the sleeplessness . That's part of like the structural changes in the brain and the sleeplessness , and so I think the education needs to be deeper and more comprehensive , to involve partners and family members and other providers like chiropractors at the impact of untreated postpartum depression , et cetera . For the mom , it's linked to long-term depression or future major depressive episodes later in life , well beyond just the postnatal period . It's also linked to self-harm and suicide . So these aren't , like you know , like these are really serious things that we need to consider and support people with . And then for the child , unfortunately , postpartum depression that goes untreated long-term is linked to delayed cognitive and intellectual development , disorganized or insecure attachment styles which you carry over for the rest of your life , right ? Higher rates of behavioral problems , lower grades and , unfortunately , like a three times higher risk of infant mortality . So these are super unnerving , super unnerving data to reveal and I hope that that really helps people like invest in the importance of this topic , right .
Speaker 1Oh my God , this is , I think , also the importance of the healthcare providers really need to be on top of it . I remember I was screened . They screen here where I am in Tel Aviv and they kind of just make sure , like they ask questions Are you going to harm yourself , or something like that . Very like um no , but like that's not really screening , I don't . I don't think like just a random few questions that the nurse just wants to tick off . Um , I'm not sure it's enough and I think the uh there has to be , I guess , more information that is um not requested but rather forced onto the um new mom and her husband , like there , we need you to know about this , this , this , this , this , this , this , here's all the help that you can receive and then you can do the screening part . That's fine , um , but there there has to be a lot more uh awareness around this and and and like just education that the mother and father have to receive or , you know , whoever has the child .
Speaker 1Um , that's my feeling because personally I I did have postpartum depression when I first became a mother and it took me forever to say anything Like . It took me three months and it was already to the point where , if I didn't say anything , I didn't know if I was going to make it another day , right , so it was so intense . And then , um , at one point , like I had to confess that I'm really not okay , you know the feeling of confession . And then it's like but maybe we don't , maybe we can normalize it a little bit more so it doesn't feel like a huge confession .
Speaker 2I guess that , yeah , 100% . And I think a lot of women across many different countries and many different cultures are feeling that pressure to perform perfectly as a mom and balance all of the responsibilities from their previous life , pre-child and it's just not possible Like it . Just something has to give you . You have a finite amount of energy in your body and you're in a really critical healing process , like emotionally , physically , and it takes time to get back there physically , and it takes time to get back there .
Speaker 2So it's , it really is a shame that we put all of the responsibility on the new mom who's feeling exhausted , confused , lonely , tired , sometimes . A little bit of shame if they're not bonding correctly , it's just it's so hard for them and then we give them a scale that demands them to process all of the information and make hard decisions . It's just placing more responsibility on their shoulders and it feels really unfair . Wow , With you know , providing the inventories to partners being a little bit more firm on these . Like six week appointments , ideally earlier , because postpartum depression usually onsets by week four post delivery . But we're most women , you know , you have your baby , you leave the hospital and you don't go back until six weeks after , and that's too long .
Speaker 1Interesting . I actually I actually did not know that about . Um , the onset of four weeks . That's very interesting . So it's like cause by four weeks ? I'm thinking like that's when everybody's like all right , you're good , See ya , Like you don't need , yeah , we don't need , you don't need us to cook for you or do the long hour things , and then you're alone , yeah , we don't need you , don't need us to cook for you or do the long hour things , and then you're alone 100% .
Speaker 2Yeah , when we use some criteria , it's within the first , within four weeks of delivery , experiencing some level of it's a form of major depression , depressive disorder , right . And then it can last for most women up to a year , but for some , like the more severe cases , three years post-delivery . That is an extensive period of time when we like look at the whole system like , this is a period . It's kind of like a perfect storm , right , Because the mother's at a deeply physical and emotionally vulnerable life moment A lot of times that we're like recovering from trauma , emotional and physical trauma .
Speaker 2Birth is beautiful , but it's also really traumatizing for attachment development for the child and , statistically , the highest risk of infidelity within the marital relationship the first year of a child's life . So you look at these statistics of all of these different important people within the system and we're like , oh no , we're doing this so wrong . There's so much that could go very poorly all in one swoop if we're not supporting and scaffolding each new mom and her system appropriately , and we don't . We just don't have the resources set up for that process to be supported in the way that it needs set up for that process to be supported in the way that it needs
Holistic Approach to Postpartum Recovery
Speaker 2Just tiny bit digress .
Speaker 1And just say how lucky I feel that you're talking about this , that I get to have you talk about this , because this is totally like your thing , like this is totally up your alley , and the complexities of what we're talking about and and the impact Wow . So I just had to say like I feel so lucky right now . Um and uh , um . So I was talking about the fact that I feel like we need to , you know , wrap people up with more education , but I want you to tell me more about what you think would be a better preventative solution or different solutions , or like how can we go about this before we hit that perfect storm ?
Speaker 2So I think , definitely involving food as medicine is really important , getting moms on a healthy meal plan at the very beginning and I know that that's hard because for a lot of women the grocery shopping , the meal prepping and cooking it still falls on them during this period of recovery .
Speaker 2You know , and that's that in and of itself needs to change , because we can't cooking good food and being mindful of the nutrients that you need to replenish your body is work that that requires energy and effort and like cognitive processing to evaluate where you're at , what your deficiencies are , what food have has these minerals and nutrients . It's just too much . So we we ideally I would love to see in the future a really simplified meal prep plan for a couple weeks at a time , where the grocery list is already made . It's a really simple recipe or we fill in the missing information of the nutraceuticals that moms really do need and deserve for full recovery and that can come in like herb or tea form . It doesn't have to be so like intense right , so like oat straw , which is a nervine , can stop the bleeding and promote wound healing . It's also used to treat nervous exhaustion and it boosts a whole lot of like calcium , vitamin B's , uh , iron , all of these really wonderful things . It rebuilds your adrenals so that you're I have never heard of this .
Speaker 2Really , oh no , so important Oats draw . Um , I use it Uh , I prescribe it to my clients who are , uh like , really low in testosterone , so it helps naturally increase it , boost your hormones . Um , it's also used for a natural antidepressant , so for postpartum it's kind of like a perfect fit for moms , can ?
Speaker 1you nurse with while sipping , it's okay .
Speaker 2A hundred percent , yes , yep .
Speaker 1Wow .
Speaker 2Holy basil , which is used for just naturally used for depression treatment and it also enhances milk production . It's very safe . Ginger , which everybody you can cook with ginger all the time , or ginger teas , they're very popular which reduces inflammation and stimulates milk production and can encourage weight loss like natural , healthy weight loss . And then moringa leaf powder . Moringa is an adaptogen and it's super , super rich in minerals . The science tells us that it's more effective in replenishing your iron amounts than actually taking iron supplements , which most moms have to take because you just you lose a lot of blood during the process . So , like these are just the surface of what we can offer moms , but without the education they don't know what to tap into or how to implement that into their daily diet , and so we're just kind of your body is recovering slowly and it's hard , and that is for however long that takes . You're feeling disconnected from yourself , Right , which is really difficult .
Speaker 1Wow .
Speaker 2So I think , yes , yeah , I think there's so much Right I remember . So I have a lot of like medical conditions and that makes things more complex . But I had a fantastic chiropractor during the later stages of pregnancy and I saw him like three times a week immediately after delivery and was amazing . That was like such a critical part of my healing process and I I wish that more moms knew the benefits of chiropractory and how that can help your your like body and mind communicate better . Once your spine is aligned , it can reduce pain levels and increase wound healing rates . Um , but I also brought my daughter there because I saw early signs of torticollis and it was it was resolved within three visits . Super , it was just amazing to watch . So I think it can be a support system for moms and their child . Have you done chiropractic ?
Speaker 1Well , okay , so thank you for asking that , because I'm afraid of chiropractors .
Speaker 1but no just because , like in general , I have this weird . This is really uh , this really is a confession . I have this weird thing with , um , massages and um , like I'm I'm okay with working out and like , really , you know , squeezing what I have left , but if someone presses on me the pain , like can I either start laughing or crying . So I'll go to a massage with my husband and but I'll literally I'll say like I want to barely feel you , okay , just like .
Healing Trauma Through Support and Empowerment
Speaker 1But I my both my daughter and my son . I took them to , uh , an osteopath .
Speaker 1Uh , my daughter , cause , just she was dealing with tummy aches all the time when she was very little , but my son had a very , very intense birth .
Speaker 1Well , like it was intense , and he also , um , it seemed like kind of his neck was was just stiff and really not like moving too much . And I just ended up going to an incredible osteopath and uh , the the guy with my daughter , he was okay , but like then I really went into it here because it was the neck and I really felt like it had something to do with the birth and I was more concerned . And you know , he does something , I don't know he's , you know , doing his magic . And then he and then he says to me let's see in two weeks if you don't see that , it's , you know weeks . If you don't see that it's , you know that it's all fixed . Then come back and like within two weeks who would have thought that it's that's going to be like a two week situation ? But within two weeks he was totally fine , Like the neck was no longer stiff . So I'm assuming there's something very similar there .
Speaker 2Oh yeah , yeah , and if it's a naturopathic doctor or an osteopath , a chiropractor there there's so much like and I think you made a good point about the manipulations and how they can be kind of aggressive , and I certainly have had past chiropractors like physically injure my body because my body's kind of I got a lot of stuff going on like connective tissue disorders . My joints pop out very , very frequently . I found a chiropractor that was certified in working with children and he actually used the pediatric chiropractor techniques on my body , so it wasn't so aggressive , um , so I think , yeah , 100% , it can be a little scary if you don't find the right fit person , um , but it it can be a really important part like a role within our scaffolded system of support as we recover . I'm so glad that you found somebody that you trusted that could help you and your son .
Speaker 1Yeah , and but I'm thinking like I'm I'm not going to the osteopath , but , and you know , now I don't feel that , but you know , maybe if I would have actually taken the time for myself , it would have been amazing .
Speaker 2You know now , now that we're talking about this , Absolutely , and I think you make a point like sharing a little bit more about your delivery process being intense and difficult , and birth is trauma for most women .
Speaker 2Like this is there's a lot of pain involved , it's very scary . There's a lot of like medical powerlessness , especially you have an epidural or you're you have to go under intense surgery right away because you literally you can't move your body and people are touching your body without , like you , knowing what's going on , or it's just really scary and yeah , so for a lot of women coming out . We all talk about the beauty and the appreciation of birth and that those are all wonderful . We want to talk about that . We want to like connect with other moms and other people about how beautiful having our child is and also it can be really traumatizing and trauma needs to be processed effectively or else it compounds in impact over time . Right , and so I'll have moms who whose kids are eight and nine and 15 , and they haven't processed yet and like cleared out those pathways of fear and that impacts you so significantly in your relationships .
Speaker 1This is so important . Um , the knowledge and the very intense experience I had been through emotionally the first time around . The second time around was more physical . But the reason it was more physical and this is what I'm getting at was because it was so intense , so scary , so traumatizing . Both of our lives were on the line . And it was exactly supposed to be the opposite , like everything was working out just fine , um , until you know .
Speaker 1And then , um , I was , I couldn't even talk for the first , like 24 hours , I , every time I just opened my mouth , I was bawling , um , and it was , it was so intense and they sent a social worker over to me . I couldn't , I , I just couldn't . And then a friend visited and I'm with the baby and I'm nursing , and this is like you know , he's two days old , or a day and a half , and she sits down next to me and I just , you know , I started talking and I'm like , oh my God , I haven't even actually told my mom the whole story . And um , and I was like , and then , you know , I got home and I'm telling people , I'm starting to drip the info , but it's like too hard for me to talk . And then I'm like I have this amazing psychologist that , uh , I once went to her for a long period of time when I had anxiety and doing my masters and um , and that and that was it , and we stayed in touch forever and like whenever there's something big , was it ? And we stayed in touch forever and like whenever there's something big in my life , we meet up .
Speaker 1So , um , I wasn't thinking about it , but then I realized I need to , I need to meet up with her and then , and that's what all it was , it was one meeting and here's what she said to me .
Speaker 1She said you don't want it to be traumatic the way it was the first time around , and what I need you to do now cause you're not going to need to see me again over this what you need to do now is tell your birth story to anyone who's willing to listen , a gazillion times a day until you cannot hear it anymore , and it's just a story that you're not like . You're done telling , you are so done , and people are going to ask you and you're going to be like I you know what ? I don't even feel like getting into it , um , and , and what you're saying is the opposite , like you're talking about people who have carried that story with them . Who have carried that story with them , and the only reason I knew how to deal with it was because I carried something previously until I my life was on the line over depression .
Speaker 2So important , absolutely . I'm so grateful that you had that person in your back pocket and could get her guidance , totally .
Speaker 1And another thing I'm just going to say like girl power , you know , women empowerment . Another thing that is just so crucial in my opinion is so crucial in my opinion is to support one another . So I have a really good friend who gave birth yesterday for the third time , um , and you know so , she was all pregnant when I gave birth and uh , but she showed up putting coffee and like a muffin outside the door as to not disturb me . And then when , like she always asked , like can I have the coffee with you ? And you know , if I didn't respond , it was a no go . And if I did , and then , like I would see her , she would walk into the house and I would just start bawling because there is just , you know , a bundle of love right there . That totally gets it . No judgment , we're just going to sit together in the situation . And so what I , what I'm saying here is that I invite women to be that for one another , because it's priceless .
Speaker 2Absolutely
Support and Healing for Mothers
Speaker 2. Yeah , we really do like the saying it takes a village , right . There's so much truth to that and it's really hard being in these societies that are so individualistic that we expect ourselves to do everything on our own and so we don't often invite or request help or if it's offered , we politely decline because we are expecting ourselves to do it and be okay and just kind of grit through the tough part . And it doesn't have to be that way and that kind of like grit mentality oftentimes reinforces and sustains the trauma response in the body . Right , you might heal emotionally , and that doesn't mean if you didn't process it effectively . It might stay in your body or body dysmorphia , eating disorders , just general pain and inability to do certain like movements or positions , because your body didn't heal , it didn't have the opportunity to wholly heal , and that's a super resolvable problem when you find the right support . We don't have to go through this in such a lonely space and so , yeah , tapping into all of the people that are around you is super , super critical . I know , for trauma response I do a lot of like EFT tapping , acupressure tapping with my clients and EMDR just to kind of clear out those channels that have been well reinforced , just to kind of clear out those channels that have been well reinforced . But I think there's also a lot of because we're talking about interventions and how to support that right .
Speaker 2I think there's a lot of kind of talking about what you do . There's so much important work in providing , like , simple body weight or resistance exercises to help you , like , regain your strength , heal that ab separation that almost everybody has but nobody really talks about , and really just regain that love and connection with your body , especially if you disconnected from it during the delivery process , which a lot of us do Like . This is a super stressful , painful experience . Um , and exercise is a really critical part of your self love and self care process . Uh , so I know that you had your own postpartum um , like it was . Is it a membership ? Can people log in and have a membership now , yeah , I thought um bodyholicfit .
Speaker 1Actually , I almost dissolved it by the time the baby was like one month old , um , and then by the time he was like five months old , I'm , I'm , we're now reviving it back . So it was funny . Like I was , I was notifying that like we're done and then I was like we're so not done . How interesting , um . But yeah , I had a post , a postpartum protocol .
Speaker 2Yep , yeah , which is so important , so important . Um , yeah , I deal a lot with like pelvic floor recovery and strengthening , like strength and conditioning , and whether it's a really like well-read , super informed exercise specialist and there are many different names for who they are right floor physical therapist or a sexologist . I think having somebody that knows how to guide your body in a in the right way that strengthens the , the muscles that have been weakened , without stressing or forcing overcompensation on other areas of the body , because when we do it our own , we end up getting , like you know , either not doing it at all , um , we don't heal the ab separation which leads to that like that pouch look that a lot of women absolutely hate , and then they , they create this disconnect with their own bodies . Um , and that like I remember getting . So I used to be a dancer when I was younger .
Speaker 2For like 21 years my posture was perfect , perfect . Years . My posture was perfect , perfect . I had a child and I'm still struggling to get my posture back in like the right position , like I always used to . It's just hard when you're carrying a child in front of you on one side all the time , like your body is trying to find that balance and we want to counteract that because , like , a really poor posture communicates to your brain that you're not feeling well , that your , your body can't handle what's happening anymore . It places pressure on other areas of your body to try and compensate for the weight , and so you start experiencing this pretty global imbalance . It's just it's hard to come back from . The longer that goes on , the the the stronger those positions get reinforced and then we have to , like you know , find those atrophied muscle groups , and that's hard for a lot of women .
Speaker 1Yes , I cannot believe that . Your posture was perfect , perfect , and now you're struggling Like I'm stuck on that , I'm like , I'm like you're going to get this back , girl , like it's gonna , it's gonna , you know , of course it will . Of course it will .
Speaker 2It's . It's such a like a it's a long process . It's , it's such a like a it's a long process . Um , and I only have one child . We're only going to have one child I . I have clients and friends who have like three to five kids and have spent 15 years in a recovery process , which is wild when you think about it Like it is wild . You know , the majority of your life can be spent in wound recovery and like regaining that connection with the self , and then you have another child and it all restarts , and so I think we can do a lot better .
Speaker 1I have to say that this is when I see like very ultra-Orthodox , ultra-religious people from different religions , because a lot of the ultra or the more extreme religions , you know , don't believe in contraception and you know , you just keep going and it takes a toll . It really takes a toll , um , which also reminds me that my daughter did after her um brother was born . She did say she wants 10 siblings and I was like , all right , thank you so much for sharing your opinion . I really appreciate it . I'm so happy , you're happy you have a sibling . Yes , yeah , that's not in my plan , but you know she can do what she wants when she becomes a mom , wants when she , when she becomes a mom , um , so what do you think ? Uh , are the more promising therapies and interventions that you're seeing right now and that you're hearing about , or that you're actually performing , um , that are best for mothers ? And then , and then I have another question after that about not only mothers , but let's just , yeah , specifically for moms .
Speaker 2Yeah , Um so certainly EMDR for trauma clearing , like we talked about . It's just , it's the fastest way of just like recalibrating your system , of just like recalibrating your system , definitely look up EMDR .
Speaker 1I've heard about it , I've read about it . I've never done it , but from what I'm hearing around me , it's very fast and effective . So , guys , if this is something that you are not familiar with , definitely look it up .
Speaker 2Yeah , 100% , and I'm trained in a number of other trauma-informed reprocessing techniques and they're effective , but they take longer and they take more effort , and women deserve the most efficient process to get themselves back into the quality of life that they deserve . So , emdr for trauma ? Um , as a pelvic floor specialist , I do so I'm trained in , which is , um , it's a medical model , uh , created by a urologist and a pelvic floor physical therapist that's scientifically proven to be significantly more effective and long lasting than , like , pelvic floor surgery , right ? So when you think of mild to moderate prolapses , which nobody like , these are the things that happen fairly regularly for women , that , um , we just don't talk about , and so when they happen , they're so surprised and they don't know what to do . Um , but uh , so this would be like , uh , hernias , hemorrhoids , um pelvic floor prolapse , any of your organs kind of coming out partially from your body , um , having like incontinence issues because the muscles are so lax and we need to strengthen that . So , like leaky bladder , or even just sleeplessness , insomnia , because you're having to get up three times every single night to go to the bathroom and then get back and restart your sleep cycle . These are super , super disruptive to your quality of life , um , but we just don't talk about that stuff as much , and they are really common , and so , uh , I'm trained in Pilates , so what that
Pelvic Floor Recovery and Skin-to-Skin Bonding
Speaker 2?
Speaker 2What that is is like it's 80% of the people who complete this program will see a significant improvement , like significant improvement , just in 28 days of completion , um , and it's scientifically proven . It's not requiring of any medication , any equipment . You can do it on your own . It's literally 10 exercises , like bridge or cat cow . So these are exercises you probably are already super familiar with . They're not difficult and you just do them in a certain amount , a certain repetition that activates the pelvic floor , while synchronizing a specific breathing technique that also activates the pelvic floor . So it's really just biofeedback that helps you recognize the small , tiny muscles that are very important in your pelvic floor and how to activate them on command . And we know that , like , 40% of the people who are doing Kegels are doing Kegels incorrectly , and so there needs to be a better way , because we are feeling like really alone and isolated and getting our bodies back , and if that's working , if it's doing more damage , there has to be a different technique .
Speaker 1If it's doing more damage , there has to be a different technique . Can I ? Is it ? Do you do any of this online Like ? Do you offer that ?
Speaker 228 day program online . Also , I have a course that you can purchase I think it's $97 and you have lifetime access to it . It's super , super basic . If you're doing it online and you're needing help , I ask that people send me like a video or pictures of them to make sure that they're doing the positioning correctly , and it's really , really effective .
Speaker 1So let's make sure that we link that .
Speaker 2Sure , yeah , yeah , I think it doesn't have to .
Speaker 2So it's very common . Even when I , you know , four years ago , it wasn't that long ago Um , the recommendation is still don't do anything , don't have sex , don't work out , don't stress your body for six to eight weeks post delivery , right , but that's old , that's based in old research , that's old way of thinking . Um , when you like , break your arm , we don't tell you to wait for six to eight weeks before trying to heal , right . And so one to two days after delivery is the clinical recommendation to start activating your pelvic floor . Now , this does not mean get barbells and start doing , like a full workout , pelvic floor exercises . When you're laying down and sitting down and not , like you know , stressing your body out , that's when you should be doing it , because oftentimes we're in the hospital for a couple of days and your muscles are atrophying during that time . When you're laying down , one to two days after delivery , we should be activating our pelvic floor so we don't lose function and then have to work in six weeks to regain all the function back .
Speaker 1We're talking about vaginal delivery .
Speaker 2Yeah , yes . And also if you I mean , if you're having a C-section , your organs are still moved around , your uterus still has to go back .
Speaker 1Oh , a hundred percent . What I mean is the one to two days . That's a very important distinction . Thank you , absolutely 100% . If you had a C-section , you need to go through the pelvic floor recovery and you have to absolutely . The only thing is one to two days . It depends also how you're recovering from the C-section , but that it might take a little bit longer than the vaginal , just from my experience .
Speaker 2Yeah , and for stitches , right , I think it depends on so yeah , I mean , anybody who's listening definitely talk with your provider about your specific case and what feels like a good fit for that . But waiting just because we are waiting is not a good option , right ? If you are still bleeding , like if you're still bleeding from stitches , if you're in a raw state , clearly we want to wait a little bit longer . 100% are different in a raw state , clearly we want to wait a little bit longer . 100% are different , like the traumas to the body , very different between a C-section and a vaginal delivery , and so it definitely is case by case but definitely case by case and definitely like check with your provider .
Speaker 1But know that it's absolutely fine if your provider says go for it to get going , don't just wait around . Yeah , that's great .
Speaker 2Yeah , and I did you do red raspberry leaf during your recovery process .
Speaker 1No , but I was told .
Speaker 2It's awesome for like a uterine toner , because it helps you know your body is working really hard to get everything back to the shape that it was before um and to get your organs realigned , because they're all kind of wonky and in different areas , and so I think that's a really good additive . And , um , I hear a lot that that's people think that's only for vaginal delivery and it's not , it's for everybody , because every woman who has birthed a child in some kind of form , your body has been totally disrupted and really needs support to kind of get back to that place .
Speaker 1I feel like I'm that client who's like I know I was supposed to on so many things . Wow , yes .
Speaker 2Talking about it . Right , Because we can have the knowledge , but when you're in it , when you're in the thick of the experience , we can't hold all of the mental load to do everything for ourselves . We need other people to support us because we are limited . We're in a really vulnerable spot . We just can't do it all . We can't remember everything . It's not possible .
Speaker 1Absolutely , absolutely , and that's also my point of like saying this , even with , uh , certain things that I have knowledge about and and even you know the , the most knowledgeable people , like when you're , just like you said , when you're in um survival mode , that's it , that's it , yeah , so it's , it's good for , like , the people around the mom also to know these things . Um , yes , did you want to say anything else about the um , the therapies and interventions , because I think I definitely interrupted you didn't I ?
Speaker 2I always love our conversations because we just kind of flow and go wherever we want to go , but I know there's a lot of value packed in this , so I hope listeners are are still here and and intrigued Um , yeah , I think there is . Um , I want to . I know it's not technically like a therapy , for from my perspective because you know I'm a clinician but skin to skin contact for mom and baby like the most important thing . And again , whether you had a C-section or a vaginal delivery , skin to skin contact is beyond critical , especially when we're seeing like postpartum rates increase and the severity of impact that we talked about earlier . Like that it's not just like a warming sensation that makes your baby feel good right , I mean , yes , it is that but also there are neurotransmitters . You literally both of your bodies yours and your baby's flood with cuddle hormones , oxytocin , with all of the goodness , and you really need to have that present . That's what helps combat the mood disruption . It's so important .
Speaker 1Thank you so much for saying that that's the best therapy ever . I get to say that I really was all I'm I'm still on top of it there that that's the best thing in the world the best . Thank you for saying that the best .
Speaker 2Thank you for saying that , and it's kind of beautiful because it's all biological right . We were made to hold our babies without contraptions or space or stuff blocking us . Connection gets activated in the very early hours and days of delivery and that's so critical and I think there's a lot of program like hospital programs out there that are not encouraging that still , which is really sad . It's really sad .
Speaker 1Oh my God , skin to skin , Absolutely 100% . Yeah , partner just like putting his hand on her cheek and I was like how , how important and like I see , and I wasn't even thinking about it now , and then you said that it's so important .
Speaker 2Wow , yeah , yeah , we really underestimate , like the natural processes of our body , and that's that's purpose to kind of jumpstart and kick in the hormonal rebalancing process , right , like that's .
Speaker 2We are built to connect to our baby and to our mate and a lot of that is through physical touch and I think that's really like underestimated and underutilized and it's so simple and so accessible and it's free , so we need to be talking about it a lot more .
Speaker 2This I feel like I'm operating at like an 80% intelligence rate than previous , when I was not pregnant and I did not like I did a lot of research too . I was not aware before I delivered my child that I was going to lose brain function in some of these other areas and like I mean I've done a lot of research since because I was like why can't I conceptualize , why can't I think in the same way that I did before , and your gray matter like literally changes . You lose gray matter in certain areas of your brain and you gain it in the emotional area that is purposed for , like social connection , emotional attunement , like all of the self-reflection , which is why we have a whole lot of moms who deliver and then make these global life changes . Right , like we're just very introspective . Your brain changes and why don't people talk about that ? Right , we talk about baby brain , but people are like , oh , baby brain , you'll be fine .
Speaker 2It's a legitimate thing . You're structurally different than what you were before .
Speaker 1Forever , Forever .
Speaker 2It's wild . It's wild to me .
Speaker 1Like , don't talk about , like , oh you'll , you know , you'll get over it . It's no , you're . You're really a changed human being .
Speaker 2And I think about , like I own my own private practice , so I had a lot more flexibility on my caseload when I went back and when I went back .
Speaker 2But a lot of moms don't , like we are . We as women are equal earners now , like in the state of the world . We we hold a lot of the um like the money-making role as well , and so there is a pressure to like go back as soon as possible and to keep performing to the extent that you were before . And if you're going back six to eight weeks after your child was born , like your brain has not settled into its new structure yet , you , you literally feel like you're going crazy a little bit and that's really sad , like I just I empathize with all of the moms who are trying to balance everything and are confused about why their , why their brain's not working , and then you feel like this judgment from other people about underperforming . It's just a really difficult place to be in and I wish that we had better , like more knowledge that was dispersed among employers for why this is happening and to be a little bit more lenient about that .
Speaker 1And and even like to say to that mom like nothing's wrong with you , you're doing absolutely great and your body and your brain and everything's doing exactly what it's supposed to do .
Speaker 2Yeah , absolutely yeah . Just like wipe away that stress and that shame and trust your body that it's going to get back to its new norm and that you'll find the strengths in that new norm . Like there's so much goodness to having an enhanced introspection , or like heightened sensitivities to emotion and social dynamics . Like there's so much benefit there . We just have to learn how to play to those strains now that we've kind of disconnected from the more mathematical or logical ways of thinking and everybody's a little bit different . But it's just , it's all a transition process . You have to be flexible and adaptive and figure out who you are now , because there's so much that changes .
Speaker 1Absolutely , yep , um . I want to tap into some more of your knowledge , um , and I'm interested in the interplay of the maternal mental health , the infant development and and here's like the biggie the family wellbeing , um , so I guess specifically we can talk about how your work actually addresses this interconnectedness , um , and and we can also talk about just what you think works best as a strategy talk about just what you think works best as a strategy .
Speaker 2Yeah , absolutely so . Family systems are kind of my jam . I mean , I know I specialize in relationships , but I'm a systems trained clinician and so I really do tend to look at the whole , you know , the whole eco map of people that are present . Um , the parents . When we , when we're talking about family systems , the parents , the parental subsystem is always the grounding anchor or the model for the stability of the system , right ? So when the parents are at odds with one another or are feeling tension and it's not resolved or repaired effectively or quickly , the rest of the system , even babies , because they're so absorbing of the energies around them , are responsive to that destabilization . So it's really , really important . The marital relationship is so important and directly affects the feeling of safety , stability and security of the child . Even if they don't know what's going on , they feel whatever is between the two of you right , and I say this to express to like the selfless mamas out there and I know I certainly have been one of them and you probably are one of them who routinely dismiss our own health appointments or medical care or decompression time or just general basic needs like going to the bathroom . We put to the side to prioritize our children , and that's that's really beautiful , Like in concept . I totally resonate with that and I've certainly been there . We want to help reframe that perspective , to be like you taking care of yourself . These expressions of love , nurturance and regulation for you automatically get passed down to your child , right ? So you doing stuff for you is you doing stuff for your child ? They aren't exclusive things , they're there's like a , they're completely interwoven and so we want to , we want to normalize , like just basic self-care and meeting your needs . That doesn't make you a bad mom , it doesn't make you a bad partner . It's a very necessary part of stability within the system . So the interplay between moms , their partners and babies it's so wildly interwoven with one another .
Generational Trauma Transmission and Parenting
Speaker 2We also know that trauma and trauma subjective is intergenerational . Right , there's a transmission process that gets carried across multiple generations epigenetically . And so when there is domestic violence , when there's resentment , like unresolved resentment from an unhealed affair or something , um , if there's mood disorders in the mom or even in the partner , right Like , all of these heightened stress responses affect the mother and automatically affect the child . Right Like , we pass down our stuff to our children as much as we fight and work , not to . There's just a natural organic transmission process , and so things like inflammation , metabolic and hormone disorders , depression and anxiety all have the potential to get passed down , which is why we want to counteract those . We want to take care of ourselves and also be mindful of , like you know what food we're eating , what our relationship is like , the marital relationship . If that is not doing well , we want to prioritize that , not wait until the child is five and going to school for us to be like I have time now , let's give to us . It deserves more , because it's an important piece of the child's development .
Speaker 1So important because , like even for me , when I I'm very lucky to feel like I'm married to my best friend , but it's definitely like the first year of a child it's like everybody's just gonna sit and wait until , like , we're stabilized . Yeah , so important to say that .
Speaker 2Yeah . So yeah , I mean I think I think there are a lot of like specifics that we can dive into , and if there's one topic in particular that you're wanting to like tease out a little bit more , I'm happy to jump into that . But overall , it's really like whatever affects you , affects them .
Speaker 1Right , no , I think that we have talked about so much and I really don't want to further overwhelm , because I think that , uh , you have really gotten gone into so much , uh , and so many important pieces of information have just been uh , you know , released into the world , and so , um , I would , I would just love it if you came back on to the show this season and we just continue this , this discussion , and take it to other places .
Speaker 2Yes , I always love talking with you . I very much enjoy it , so I'm happy to be back , thank you .
Speaker 1Thank you so , so much . This is this was I'm so excited for this to air .