Di: 0:00

I'm thrilled to welcome Nancy Rothstein, the Sleep Ambassador, to the show today. It's truly a joy to have her. Nancy is a leading voice in the field of sleep, working as an expert, author and speaker to empower individuals to achieve restful and restorative sleep. From consulting with Fortune 500 companies and the travel industry to lecturing at universities and working also with athletes, nancy's impact is widespread. She's also a published author, with her children's book my daddy snores being a bestseller, and she's the host of the Sleep Radio Show. Her commitment to sleep health is further demonstrated by her involvement with organizations like NIH Sleep Disorders Research Advisory Board.

Di: 0:56

With her extensive experience and an MBA from the University of Chicago Booth School of Business, nancy is incredibly well-equipped to discuss the importance of sleep, and I am absolutely certain that you will gain invaluable information from this conversation. I certainly enjoyed it so much, and I know that you will too. So much, and I know that you will too. So let's dive in. Welcome to Bodyholic with Di. No fads, just facts. Di and and I'm here to help you ditch the noise and build a life you love. Let's go, oh but wait.

Di: 1:36

I'm not a doctor, so use your common sense. Now let's dive in. Nancy H Rothstein, thank you so much for being here with us. Thank you.

Nancy: 1:48

Thank you for inviting me. I'm honored.

Di: 1:50

It really is Sorry. I love what you do. I'm very, very excited for us to get talking, because you and I have already spoken previously several times and the conversation about sleep with you, I don't know, nancy, you make it fun, you really make it fun and interesting. And then you know I just want to curl up and now I want to get cozy and get a really good night's sleep. So how about we talk about the, a new year's resolution? The issue of the new year's resolution Cause right now we just walked into 2025 and everybody's usually focused on a diet and exercise, but they overlook sleep, and I would love it if you told us why prioritizing sleep is so crucial and crucial for health, well-being and, overall, just keeping it together.

Nancy: 3:01

So yeah, sleep is really non-negotiable. Unfortunately, most people over the since certainly since the industrial age and the lights came in and certainly with modern technology relegate sleep to to the back burner. It's like where I need more time. So what do you rob? You rob sleep and unfortunately we can't do that. It's not sustainable. Why I sort of narrow it down.

Nancy: 3:34

And when I look at the whole idea of bodyholic, I said to you from a book I read you are given a body. You cannot exist in this world as a human without your body. But what happened is biology versus behavior. We are not going to biologically shift in any great extent for eons, but our behaviors have changed and so what we're doing is we are impacting our biology by our behaviors related to sleep and we're seeing it in depression and anxiety and cardiovascular disease and hypertension and brain health. That's something we'll talk a little bit about. It's it's just, it's such a beautiful thing.

Nancy: 4:23

I woke up this morning early this morning in the middle of a dream and I thought to myself wow, just the mechanics of that happening. And it was so vivid and so explicit and seems so real. And yet, well, there's so much still we don't even know about that. But the fact that we do sleep, the fact that it's restorative, the fact that it is paramount to our mental, physical and, yes, spiritual health and emotional, is just, it's a beautiful thing. And yet we have just become culprits, robbers of our own sleep health. So when you say New Year's resolutions I've written articles about that and I thought you know most resolutions people make are gone by the wayside pretty quickly, Totally. And I'm doing a session with a scientist in India for LinkedIn. I'm LinkedIn's resident sleep expert internally for the company and I have a course on LinkedIn learning which anybody listening you can sign up for free for 30 days or whatever.

Nancy: 5:38

But, learning, and it's called Sleep is your Superpower. It's a half an hour quick overview about sleep. Like 500,000 people have taken this course. Great, I'm gonna link it. Why? Because people are thirsty for help and they don't really. Nobody learns about sleep.

Nancy: 5:59

I just finished writing a book with Harvard and Boston Children's Hospital for a research grant. It's not available to the public yet, but for children and their caregivers, and it says on the back you need good sleep to be what you want to be, and that's to teach children. You know the old paradigm. You know well there's I'll sleep when I'm dead. Well, guess what? You'll be dead faster if you don't sleep well. And the second thing is you know, for kids, you are so good, you get to stay up late, you're naughty, you're going to bed like, oh well, you're never going to deprive, you're never going to say to a kid you were so good, so. But the point is we've presented sleep to children in a way that isn't healthy.

Nancy: 6:49

So back to your question about a new year's resolution. So how about this lecture that I'm doing with LinkedIn, with this scientist in India? And it's really about resolve to prioritize sleep in 2025. That's all I think you should do is resolve to learn a little bit more about it. And if you have a family, make it a family affair. Like it's really cool if you go online with kids I don't if they're three, five, 10, 20 and say, let's what's our sleep. Fact of the week.

Di: 7:22

Oh my gosh.

Nancy: 7:22

Like teenagers who care about sports, for example, and they're being pushed to stay up till God knows what time doing homework and and they show. Studies show, when kids get a half an hour more sleep, lower depression, lowered accidents, all kinds of things, auto accidents, all kinds of things. But just to look at sleep and say, you know, we don't know much about this, let's do some studying, let's find out more, it's really cool everybody. I mean, it is just, I know so little about. I know a lot about. I know a little about a lot, but there's always more to learn, even for today.

Nancy: 8:06

I was researching. I said, you know, I better update some things and just make sure I have it on track. I mean, I'm an MBA, I'm not a physician or a PhD, but I work with leading scientists. They're at the crux of everything I do. But my job is like as the sleep ambassador is to be a bridge from the research and the clinical and all of that and then bring it to the public in a way that which is what you're such an expert at doing so that they can comprehend the topic in ways you know. You know whatever.

Di: 8:37

You really do that, though you really, you really are so gifted in in that and, um you know, I'm thinking I gotta tell you a funny story. Yeah go ahead. I'm thinking about um, how, so? How do we actually overcome these challenges? Cause you know, you're talking about how amazing sleep is, and I, of course, I'm. I, before I became a mother, I got into bed exactly eight hours before I was going to wake up, before my alarm clock, exactly.

Nancy: 9:15

And you just do that, what you just knew to do that.

Di: 9:21

Well, I, you know, I, I have my knowledge in health. I've been in the um health and fitness space for about 19 years, so I don't think I just knew I probably read, but um, I definitely was almost. Yeah, no, I, I, not almost. I absolutely kept those eight hours like it was the most sacred thing in the world.

Nancy: 9:55

Exactly Yep.

Di: 9:58

And then, and then I wonder so it really did go out the window, even though, um, it's still very important to me. So when, when my baby goes to sleep and I'm very tired sometimes I'll just go to sleep with him. Good, and so I'll try to like and you know he's going to wake up soon, but at least I'm resting, At least I was in bed and slept, at least for a little bit. But there are so many challenges that people face, and even people who are super aware of their sleep and their health, just like me, and they want to improve their sleep, but they're still really challenged. So what kind of practical, actionable tips can we use to overcome these kinds of obstacles?

Nancy: 10:50

So you just said something really telling. You know you go to sleep with the baby sometimes when you're really tired, you know he's going to wake up during the night. He's one and and so, ok, that brings up two tips right there, two primary ones. You know everybody talks about sleep quality and quantity. If you get nine hours of sleep a night and yet you're tossing and turning and waking up and not falling back asleep, this is not good quality. So it's not just about the quantity, it's about the quality. But what gets left out and this is so critical everyone is consistency.

Nancy: 11:28

Your circadian clock, your body clock, your circadian rhythm, whatever you call it, loves consistency. We operate based on the 24-hour rotation of the earth for the most part, and our body attunes to that, and the Nobel Prize winners that won basically proved that every cell has a clock. So when we get off kilter with our circadian clock and some people may be night owls, some people may be morning people, but you get off kilter with your circadian clock, everything in your body is jolted. And so, consistency, you should go to bed and wake up at the same time, seven days a week. Is that realistic? No, not always, but an awareness of adhering to that. And so then you said something what can we do that's practicable, doable, realistic A routine.

Nancy: 12:26

You have a routine for your baby, your children. People have routines for exercising, they have routines for going to a meeting, routines and sort of preparing for a meeting, preparing to go on a trip. But so few people truly have a sleep routine or prepare for sleep. So that in and of itself is part of the whole consistency having a consistent routine. Yes, the baby's going to be sick and crying during the night, you're going to have an activity that keeps you up late, all kinds of things come in. But if you have this routine, this preparation system for yourself, and you're consistent about that and about your timing as best as you can be, then you're well on your way. One other thing I want to mention then we'll get what is a sleep routine. We'll talk about it Right, right, yeah, really everyone. One of the biggest sleep tips drum roll that I give that people then come back to me and say, oh, my God, this has changed my life. Now, what could that be? Don't look at the clock If you wake up during the night.

Di: 13:37

I love that.

Nancy: 13:42

Why? What? Tell me what happens when you look at the clock and it says all I know.

Di: 13:49

All I know is that when my daughter was born uh, this was five and a half years ago I kept looking at the clock to see like how much, and then I just stopped. Yeah, but maybe you needed to record, like how much she was right.

Nancy: 14:02

but no, but then I, but then I stopped and I was like but maybe you needed to record, like how much she was Right.

Di: 14:05

But no, but then I, but then I stopped and I was like, why do I need to record this? Why do I? And it changed everything. It just changed everything. I don't know why. You tell me.

Nancy: 14:19

OK, everyone, one of the things thousands of people said this to me I wake every up in the middle of the night at three o'clock every night. I said that's very helpful to me. How do you know it's three o'clock? Looking at the clock. So what happens? You have activated your lovely brain and what does your brain count? It starts counting. I have three hours, I have four hours till I have to get up. I'm not going to go to sleep. Oh my God, I got to do this. Tomorrow, I'm going to be too tired. Oh my gosh, I forgot to do this.

Nancy: 14:50

Oh, now your brain's off to the races doing what it does a good job of when you're supposed to be awake. So what do you do? You just don't look at the clock. Now some people would say, yeah, but I have to know if I have to get up, okay, use an alarm. Some scientists would say if you need an alarm clock, you're sleep deprived. I'm sorry, in our modern world, not everybody's circadian clock is doing what it really wants. But consistency, again, that's important. But you want to. You just don't want to look at the clock during the night. It's hard. So what do you do? You turn it around, or you and please, if you do have a digital clock and it's blue, white or green light, that little bit of light is enough to throw off your melatonin production, your melatonin release science-based. So even the blue light on an electric toothbrush is enough to impact insulin resistance, for example.

Nancy: 15:48

You want to not have any of those bright lights around. I mean, I just my apartment was renovated after disaster in the building and I just moved back in and I am so upset because all of these dimmer lights have the most, the brightest God-b, god blessed line on it that you dim it with. And I'm like what, what, the what? And there's a light under my nightstand. I have to put a bowl and a towel over it till they come finish it and move the mothership to another room, I mean. But I know how disruptive it is and so I'm like you know, I'd rather not know it was dimmed or not, to see it's dimmed or not, than have these bright lights everywhere.

Nancy: 16:30

Take an inventory, everybody, and see in your bedroom how many bright lights there are. If it's red, it's okay. Why would red light be okay and blue not? We evolved in caves. Blue knot, we evolved in caves, so we evolved to process blue, yellow, I'm sorry, red spectrum light, red, orange, yellow. I just got another new sleep device to look at and I'm like, really, the light is bright green on this. Why would you put a green? They didn't know. And I'm like I had to put duct tape over the thing and no, I know if you need to be charged, because I had to put duct tape to put it under my pillow and it was just like so light at night depends on what light, but guess what and I'm diverging here a bit Blue light because, you covered on your cell phone.

Nancy: 17:23

The blue light's bad for sleep and all of that. Well, guess what? Blue light is extraordinarily important at the right time. When you get up in the morning, you want exposure to light, daylights, even artificial light, like your phone or your computer. It's getting blue light at the right time, and that's not when you go to sleep. And when we were back to where we started. When you wake up in the middle of the night and you look at the clock or you pick up your phone first is good.

Nancy: 17:56

And how many people see a text in the middle of the night and can ignore it? Like big problem, yeah, like temptations. It's like like big problem, yeah, like temptations. It's like recharge your phone out of the bedroom so you can recharge in bed. Okay, so you can't. You've got an elderly parent or a child that you need to know. Then do whatever that they. They can come through on your phone and interrupt it, but don't put it where you can reach it. That you, you, you'll know you've got a break, you know that they can call through and overcome the silencing that you have.

Di: 18:29

But there's the. I don't know if it's true for all phones, but on the Apple phone there's there's a sleep setting. Uh huh, and I'm every night I it goes on exactly at 945.

Nancy: 18:46

Oh, and that's another thing you just said. Here's another really good tip, everybody, for your quality, quantity, consistency. We were talking about a sleep routine because you said what's practical? So what is a sleep routine and how do you know to start it? Because you think, oh, I'm going to make that call. Oh, I've got one more email to call. Oh, I've got one more email to write. Oh, I've got it. I want to finish this show. I'm like I love this show. I'm watching a movie and it's 1130 or 12 one in the morning and you're thinking I'll, you know, I'll sleep a little late. Great idea I had this years ago, set your phone alarm an hour before you intend to go to bed, and people would say and then put it aside.

Nancy: 19:31

And if you, if your phone's your alarm and you don't have like a clock, I highly recommend, in fact, it linked in. When we did these sleep fairs all over the world, that was one of the giveaways. Everybody got one of these little old-fashioned looking clocks, little bell thing on the top, and you know they didn't have bright light or any. It was not easy to find tickless, sound, silent alarm clocks without a lot of light. It was not not easy, but we did.

Di: 19:59

Pickless is not easy to find.

Nancy: 20:03

No, no, it isn't. And I had to put a battery in a clock that I hadn't used since I moved back in and it was like tick, tick. I had to put it in. I took the battery. I said I can't do this, even in another place where I don't, I'm not sleeping. Yeah, we've all put clocks in drawers. In fact, I'll tell you a funny story. When I first started being a sleep ambassador, I was consulting to Procter Gamble and I had clocks made for everybody in the program and they were so lovely. And then I put the battery and it didn't occur to me and they sounded like a metronome.

Di: 20:37

Wow.

Nancy: 20:40

So I gave them to everybody. I said but this is, you're gonna end up putting in a drawer, but just put it somewhere in another room. This is not for your bedroom as much as it was intended to be. It's not, but how?

Di: 20:50

aware, like that was before yeah.

Nancy: 20:54

So, anyway, you set your alarm on your phone. Just try this for a week, an hour before you want to go to bed. So you want to go to bed at 11, you set it at 10. What are you going to do in that hour? Well, hopefully your kids are in bed by then. You're not going to pay bills. You're not going to go eat a big dinner or have a glass of red wine, because all those things are not helpful.

Nancy: 21:19

Remember, when you're horizontal and you've just eaten a big dinner, your body is saying I'm sorry, time out. Do you want me to digest or do you want me to sleep? Because I'm really not good doing both at the same time. And also, guess what? You're asking me to use all these enzymes for digestion. They're not the same ones that are happening during sleep. So you know, helping process nutrients or whatever. So like I'm confused. The other big one we'll get back to is people have a big glass of water or a water bottle near their bed. I'm always thirsty, or it's really important to stay hydrated. So you're drinking all this water before bed and then you have to get up to pee a bunch of times. Well, your bladder is saying timeout. I cannot sustain sleep.

Di: 22:13

I'm going to have to get up and urinate I just the worst thing in the world.

Nancy: 22:19

So, and here's the other thing. Okay, so you have to take medications before bed. Here's a big one. Your doctor likely won't tell you this, but this was something I noticed when it just came up, and then I started to be really conscientious about people knowing this. A lot of people will have to take pills before they take them, right before they lay down to go to sleep, and they go and take a little sip Guess what? Then you lay down Where's the pill? It's in your esophagus. You shouldn't lay down after you take medication for a good 10 minutes and take enough water, not a. You know whatever you need, I'm not going to tell you.

Di: 22:55

Don't down the bottle.

Nancy: 22:58

Or take it a half an hour before bed. Or take it a half an hour before bed If that's on the. You know the instructions for the RX, or it isn't, or the supplements, or whatever it is you're taking, but just don't take it with a few sips and lay down. You want it to go down? Yep, Probably a big problem with the elderly who are given. I was thinking that it's just so anyway. That's another tip. So now back to your alarms. Set your phone alarm and an hour for bed. What are you going to do? You can take a shower or a bath. If you shower in the morning, that's great, but I highly recommend, especially for people who have trouble falling or staying asleep you take a shower at night, and to everybody. Why, I mean? Do you really want to get in bed dirty after a long day?

Nancy: 23:45

Even if you, even if you exercise, tell me why.

Di: 23:51

Oh, I, um I have been in situations where whether I was in the military or even just, you know, dealing with the kids, um kids, where I just go to bed sticky and I'm just thinking about how sticky I am and there's nothing cozy about it. It's very hard to fall asleep that way.

Nancy: 24:12

And I'd want to change my sheets every day if I was going to bed. Now, let's say you exercised at four in the afternoon, then you took a shower and you're going to bed at 10, 11 at night, I would still hop in the shower again. It lowers, it raises your body temperature, setting the stage for it to lower when you get in bed. It's soothing and you know what? It's a great place to wash away the day Like. You're in the shower and hopefully you don't have your phone or something in the shower like that, although there's a shower curtain that has a pocket in it for your phone. Let's don't even Is there really.

Nancy: 24:45

Just, I heard about that at one place and I'm not surprised. So just close your eyes and be grateful. We know. We know in this world that a huge percentage of the people don't have the luxury of a warm shower. We know that and you do. So, if you can get in the shower at night, close your eyes and, with greatest of gratitude, feel the water over your face, give your arms, your hands some attention and just as you're washing, you say I am so grateful to have the shower, it's so relaxing, instead of just getting in, getting out, you know, taking the just look at it as a mindfulness practice.

Di: 25:31

Totally.

Nancy: 25:32

It's so wonderful. So then you did that. What else are you going to do? Ah, 80% of couples, the last things they look at is this Look at each other, have a conversation, good things, you know, sharing the covers with someone isn't and that's actually the name of a friend of mine's book sharing the covers every couple's night, every couple's guide to a better night's sleep. And that's another little tip. So many people have problems with this about somebody gets up too early, somebody sn, somebody and, by the way, that's why I wrote this because my ex-husband snored. That's what. That's what made me realize there was an ROI, a return on investment to a good night's sleep, and I morphed my whole finance career into this, into sleeping, Because he snored. I'll always thank him for snoring, but he had a sleep.

Nancy: 26:26

Plenty of people, all the great sleep habits in the world, will fix a sleep disorder. So if you think you're at risk or someone you love is at risk, go see a sleep doctor who's proficient or board certified in sleep critical. A doctor who's proficient or board certified in sleep critical Because you can't ignore it and that can impact all kinds of aspects of your health. But back to so. Now we're in this hour.

Nancy: 26:50

You've taken a shower, you're talking to your bed partner, your spouse, not just before bed, but if you have issues with sleeping with your bed partner and there's stuff going on, take time to have a civilized conversation about your needs, their needs, some compromises, and figure out what works best, Because sharing the covers with distress or anger or anything else is not. But it's important to have that conversation and so few couples do. They just say, oh, he snores, I have to leave the bedroom, or he doesn't respect that. You know I want to read in bed, or he gets. He's on the phone in bed, or she's playing words with friends, or you know wordle or whatever else. Talk to each other about it and find a plan that suits everyone.

Di: 27:38

Oh, how great would it be if, like, if he's on the phone and you're like a light or whatever, and then, but instead you just give him a hug or her or whatever, and and, just like you know, make the whole thing cozy.

Nancy: 27:55

Yeah, you know, somebody sleeps warm, somebody sleeps cold. Compromise, find ways around it, and there are. So now you're having a conversation or you're not. You sleep, you know I don't have bed partners, so what do I? I read, and sometimes I go through-.

Di: 28:11

A real book.

Nancy: 28:12

A real, a real book. None of this reading on a screen. Like one of my son's friends, she has two novels and I said you offered Brian, could you please print them? And his wife works for a large network so she can just go print them. And because there are hundreds of pages, I said just send them to me and I'll read them. But I'm not reading them on a screen. I don't read books on screens and for those of you, if you're reading on your iPad, at least flip the light. You, if you're reading on your ipad, at least split the light, so the wall, and as dim as you can take it, so that the background's black, the writing's white what do you think about kindle?

Nancy: 28:48

kindle has a really good, almost like paper screen yeah, and almost like no backlight, because that's a problem, like when you reverse it on like an ipad you can do it's like 80, 85% of the light is gone when you reverse to the black screen. Kindles can be great, it just depends how they're backlit. But a paper book is like. I love that and I'm not, particularly if I'm reading nonfiction. I like to annotate sometimes, but you don't want it to be something that's, believe me. I found myself at one in the morning finishing a really good novel, but you know, it's life Sometimes I want to be really good in order for me to stay up until one.

Nancy: 29:32

Oh my God, once in a blue moon. But I remember saying once to somebody I may be the sleep ambassador, but I'm not always the sleep saint, or I'm not the sleep saint, but anyway now. So you're reading and then you can do breathing techniques, because if you have trouble falling asleep, oh, huge thing. Everyone, we all know this we carry our stress to bed with us. Sometimes the first time we have to deal with something we're upset about or something crappy happened during the day is when we get in bed. It's the first time it's quiet, Especially if you have kids or you have a busy business and you lay down and process stress during the day, whether it's through therapy or mindfulness or yoga or exercise or just talking with someone that cares about you. Care about each other, therapy, whatever but you just don't want to take it all to bed with you.

Di: 30:34

And another way. So interesting, though, in general, I think that's such an amazing tip, not only for sleep, just process it during the day. I think that's such an amazing tip, not only for sleep, just process it during the day. I think that's brilliant.

Nancy: 30:46

It's so important. And another way to do it is to journal. I go through periods like I was had a gratitude journal. Every night I wrote in what I was and then I was just I. Yeah, I did. But now I have another way of like a stone next to my bed and not a night goes by I even had a travel one most of the time and I hold it and I think about what I'm grateful for and I think about a few personal things that have happened which we won't go into right now Not that I wouldn't. I mean, they're part of my story and I express gratitude. So you hold the stone and I express gratitude. So you hold the stone. Yeah, I hold the stone and I, every night before I go to sleep, and I think of what I used to hold on my heart. Now, you know, I just put I have a little thing next to my bed that it sits in and I think of what I'm grateful for.

Di: 31:32

Wow.

Nancy: 31:33

And it's just it. So so I do. Do we have a few minutes to do a technique that people can do Totally? So I do. Do we have a few minutes to do a technique that people can do?

Di: 31:40

Totally.

Nancy: 31:41

So I, just you know, the last thing any of us need is more to do, right, so are you. Do you have to breathe to live, apparently Is your body there Hopefully. Do you need to express? Do you express gratitude?

Di: 32:06

I agree with you.

Nancy: 32:07

So here I came up with this practice and I combine body awareness, breathing and gratitude. It's really sort of cool, and it really also. Let me ask you another question when is your mind most of the time? Present, or in the past, or the future?

Di: 32:26

My mind. Personally, I would say I spend a lot of time in the future.

Nancy: 32:36

And most people's minds are in the past or the future. They're not present. Everybody's trying to be present. I can do a very quick technique which will bring you present very quickly. It's all about the breath, body awareness. It's really interesting. It's from an Ayurveda which is a 5,000-year-old tradition that comes from India Ayurveda A-Y-U-R-V-E-D-A Fascinating, I mean. It precedes all of our modern medicine. Extraordinary things to learn. But in Ayurveda you learn the body is always in the present. It's not in the past, it's not in the future. The body is right now. I mean like, think about that. Your body is never anywhere but present. Every cell is present at any time.

Di: 33:27

It's really amazing.

Nancy: 33:28

And so it occurred to me that, wait a minute. I can use the body for my breathing, because your breath it's like you breathe in, it's everything that will be. You breathe out everything that was, but between the two is now as present as you can be. So, but the body's present. That's like a really huge gift to recognize. Now, what's this gratitude thing? So you, if you're somewhere now, you want to. You could just close your eyes and take a few breaths and hopefully that's a whole, nother topic. You're breathing through your nose and not your mouth. You oxygenate, humidify and warm the air through your nose. When you mouth breathe, you are bypassing lots of organs and lots of the principles and purpose of your breathing to breathe properly and correctly, to nourish your body properly with oxygen and releasing CO2, et cetera. So hopefully you can. If you can't breathe through your nose, then find out why Another topic. So I want you to close your eyes and we're going to combine body awareness, breathing and gratitude. I want to get out of your head and I want you to go and breathe into your feet. No, sorry picture that you're laying on your bed and you're about to go to sleep. Your mind's really busy. We're going to take it somewhere else and breathe into your feet and thank them.

Nancy: 35:08

Feet, you've done so much for me today. You ran, you took me here, you took me there. You deserve a rest, thank you. Now you go up your leg. Maybe you have a knee that hurts. Give it an extra bit of love. Go up your legs, thank them for all they did. You can rest. Go to your digestive system and say thank you for processing all I put in you, whether it was good or bad, and you can rest now. I'm not going to make you do more work than you're doing. Then go to your heart. When is the last time most people thank their heart for beating? It doesn't get to stop during sleep. So you thank it during when you're laying there and say thank you so much for beating through the night and for nourishing my whole body with blood and oxygen. And thank you and I'm not going to be running five miles or you know, 5k, so you can take a rest, relatively speaking, you can open your eyes now, but you're getting the picture. I love it so much.

Nancy: 36:17

Oh, I love doing your head, because you do your mouth and you think about talking. You do your nose breathing. You do your ears. Oh my God. I used to say to my son when he was little and he wouldn't stop asking questions. I'd say, mommy's ears need a little bit of a thing. He'd laugh. He'd say, okay, I'll be quiet, but thank your ears. Oh, probably most of all in your head, well aside from your brain. Thank your eyes. Even if you cup your eyes over, rub them together and then just put them over, you know your eyes and thank them and say you get to rest. But, everybody, there's light in your bedroom. You have the TV on all night because you like the ambient noise. First of all, your brain has to process the noise. That's a problem. Two, take your hand, close your eyes, take your hand in front of your eyes and shadow aha, so there's light that goes through your eyelids. You want your room as black, dark as it can be what do you say about ambient noise though?

Di: 37:20

Like what if it's like white noise? Cricket sounds.

Nancy: 37:25

If you have a white noise machine or there's ambient noise in your house and it lulls you to sleep, it's helpful, great, but don't put headphones on all night with some noise, like you're wearing headphones. People sleep in headphones. Aside from getting the wire around their neck. The other problem is your brain has to process all that noise. So if it's white noise, be careful. What the you don't want some kind of music that your brain has to process. It needs to be, whether it's waves, something that the brain doesn't really attach to, you know. So you want it to be. You know whether it's waves or a fan kind of a noise. There's some really good, well researched, but you don't want a bright light emitting from it. That, unless it's in the red spectrum. So and remember, because you you know you're an expert at this when what is yoga is connecting the body and the mind through the breath.

Di: 38:22

I think in general working out. I'm not a yogi. I do like practicing yoga very much, but really just in Bodyholic and the platform we have a workout called the Mindfulness Strength Flow. I'm not a yoga teacher and we're going to do the strength workout, but we're going to really flow through it and hyper-focus on the breath, cause that's really when you work out you are very present with the body.

Nancy: 38:52

Right. And the other thing about working out is that you know, you want to, you want to, you want to have a work in. You know and you want to quiet that down. So, yeah, that's a. I've written an article about that.

Di: 39:08

Oh my.

Nancy: 39:08

God, long time ago, yoga, many years ago, yoga a workout or a work in, cause I was so tired of everybody calling yoga workout. No, yoga is a work in. But the other thing is before part of this back to the routine the hour before bed, whether you set your phone alarm as an experiment or not, and a lot of these changes are an experiment. You guys see what works for you, but simple shifts for sleep success. But if you you could do some mild stretches. You don't want to before bed because you're going to be still a long time. You know child's's pose I do almost every night before I get under the covers because it's so soothing, it's just like everything it's like and that, by the way, I put it out through my nose. But once in a while I do an.

Di: 39:59

Just let it go.

Nancy: 40:01

But I think you know some simple stretches and I think you know exercise and hydration and good nourishment during the day are critical. It's so important to get movement. You want to be able to move as much as possible during the day so that your whole physiology is properly working, but you don't want to get energized. That's why you don't want to exercise too close to bedtime, because you're just stimulating your system. You know what? Pause for a second. This is all about how we were designed.

Nancy: 40:43

If you just stop and think for a second, no wonder that doesn't work, because that doesn't agree with my biology and what I need to honor my physiology. Because in the book I said oh, what is it? Oh, I know what the book was. I mean, it's like 20 years. If life is a game, these are the rules. And the first chapter was you are given a body and you're only given one body, and you know what are you going to do for it, what are you going to do to love it, to care for it? So you know I look at the wellness triangle. You know fitness, nutrition and sleep Sleep's at the top of the pyramid for me, and then inside I used to literally show a pyramid in slides, and out in the middle the word spirituality would pop out, because that doesn't get nurtured a lot. That's a whole nother discussion, right, yeah, but back to so. You just want to create a sleep routine for yourself and possibly your family, that you can adhere to. With it, you don't want to put more stress on yourself about sleeping.

Di: 41:55

I am so in love with the body scan that you were mentioning and thinking every I love that so much I like can't wait to do that tomorrow with both my kids.

Nancy: 42:11

Oh, that's such, that is such a beautiful like yeah, I never suggested for kids.

Di: 42:16

Oh my God, I'm gonna, I'm, I'm like I, I'm. Oh my God, I'm going to, I'm, I'm like I can't wait, I'm so excited.

Nancy: 42:23

So you're teaching them about how wonderful gratitude is and maybe you discuss it a little bit. My eldest daughter, who's now 41, she used to be scared. Of course, intellectual, the cerebral that she is. I used to tell her, caroline, you need to park your brain for a little bit, it needs a rest. And then she'd tell me she was scared of the invisible man who was behind her chair, her lounge chair in the room. And I'm like of course she had to have the invisible man. So we would talk to the invisible man, tell him to go away, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But I love what you just said. I cannot believe. I never suggest this for parents with kids. What I did for Caroline is I made up these characters, or I would fill her stomach with a big sparkly balloon and she would breathe into her tummy and breathe out and it would relax her. But the body scan for kids is like, thank you Dee. Like what? Yeah, because I, because my kids are grown, I guess.

Di: 43:27

Oh my gosh, though this is the it's. It's such a wonderful thing, oh my God.

Nancy: 43:34

So so, in other words, come up with a routine. Prepare for sleep. If you still have struggles and you've stopped drinking wine before bed, stop caffeine after 4pm if you have trouble falling or staying asleep, or even noon because it has like an 8 to 12 hour half-life, and just honor your sleep. Think about it. Think what am I doing here that might infringe on my sleep? Oh, yes, I'm having eating too late. The kids eat, they go to bed and then we go eat. Maybe dinner isn't your biggest meal, but you've got to just say what is my body and what are my body and brain need for me? What can I? What choices can I make? Not being tough on yourself, but just sensible, Mm-hmm.

Di: 44:27

Yeah, I mean, I think I might be a little extreme, uh, but I definitely eat with my kids. I, um, I'm, I'm very. There's a circadian rhythm, and so I, I have a kid's rhythm and I just go with that.

Nancy: 44:48

You know what I was at. It's one of our family friends. She and her husband have a five month old baby and I went there and I said what do you read about babies today? I mean, dr Spock, this, that, the other thing. There's so many T Barry Brazelton you probably never heard of. But there's this thing. There's this French book. She read this, it's free, you know, and the woman, the woman who wrote it, is French and she has this thing in it and I just love that.

Nancy: 45:18

She was telling it's called the pause and the pause means like your child falls and they start to you. Don't trust you For a second Right, anything else. Like Thich Nhat Hanh, who's a Buddhist monk whose work I love, he taught me the pause. He doesn't answer a phone, for example, with well, he passed away, but he, he would. He would breathe, take three breaths before he answered the phone. That's the pause. Would breathe, take three breaths before you answer the phone. That's the pause. And maybe throughout the day to minimize stress, is you just do a pause in your transitions or something's coming up? I'm going to take a few breaths and I'm going to pause. But the eating thing you just said, eat with your kids. The other thing that this woman said, which I thought was brilliant, was not to coddle your kids with everything that they want to eat. Have them eat what you're eating, and if it means you're not eating at five o'clock they are, then eat a little bit of what they're eating so they see that what they're eating you will eat. Yes, absolutely.

Nancy: 46:25

That was so interesting. I'd never heard that about one thing, about them eating what you eat. It's another thing about you eating what they eat, and it's just. You know, life is complicated but it's also pretty simple what we need to do for our bodies, minds, emotions and spirits. But life is going to get.

Nancy: 46:50

In the way my daughters and I did New Year's, like things. New Year's, new Year's Eve no, it was New Year's Day. We set intentions and mine was sort of one of the things was just doing this pause, you know, just having these transitions, and the other thing was just partly during that was to just be in the moment and, no matter what was happening, good or bad, to just keep myself at a higher frequency. At a higher frequency, look at it from with a little bit of perspective, and not instead of getting sucked in, carrying that to bed, having bad dreams or whatever else. Yeah, but you know it's, it's and it's and it's OK to have joy, even amidst tough times. Right, you know where you are. It's tough times and one of the things that in most cultures religious or philosophical if you get sucked into all the quicksand, you can't be at your best, you can't maintain your resilience, so it doesn't mean you're not compassionate, you're not caring Right, doing everything you can do to help or serve, but it does mean it is okay to have some joy.

Di: 48:26

Something. The pause that you're talking about is, uh, very, very interesting, cause I would say that I'm a relatively mindful person, um, but when I don't sleep, I don't pause, and I find that over and over again. So, like I, I it's very important for me to write mindful emails, but I find that I start shooting emails when I'm exhausted, and it's probably something to do with the fact that, um, you know, I'm not very clear minded, so I'm not as strategic. Wow, and you're, you know, that's a very clear minded.

Nancy: 49:09

So I'm not as strategic. No, and you're. You know that's 100% correct. I mean, there's no question, I've written about it. There's plenty of research on executive function. Doesn't mean you're an executive executive function, you're focusing your ability to make decisions. Concentrate, you know. See things clearly. There's no question. When you're sleep deprived chronically or even for a day or two, it's hard to make decisions. It's really, really important to be, to be careful and conscientious of what decisions and actions you're asking yourself to make. And if you know you're sleep deprived, maybe you don't send the email. You look at it again in the morning.

Di: 49:50

Absolutely and and that's, and that's, that's um something that I think is worth kind of um making into a habit and and like working on it, like you work on your muscles right.

Nancy: 50:05

Yes, that's such a good point it is. It's exercising. Like this rabbi I studied Kabbalah with used to talk about exercising your soul muscle and I think you know you can exercise your, your sleep routine muscle. But you need to form habits so that your body, your mind know what to expect, so that your body, your mind know what to expect. And so when you're off kilter, you recognize that and you can even say to yourself I'm so, you know. You go lay down and say I know it's so late, I you know.

Nancy: 50:40

But here's a little trick your subconscious only knows what you you know, you program it to do and if you tell your brain when you're laying down to go to sleep that it was a really crappy day and you're really angry, you're really upset. That's what you're carrying into sleep with you. There is no cost and it's not denial. You know it was a bad day, but you can go to bed and say I'm going to recapitulate, which is a Deepak Chopra term. You could Google it and he's talked about it and I've known him for decades and I have been recapitulating for a long, long time but I'd somewhat forgotten about it. But what does it mean to recapitulate? You get in bed. You're really upset about something. You're worried about something.

Nancy: 51:24

The next day, do what athletes do Envision it going great. Or recapitulate, redo the day. Go through next day. Do what athletes do envision it going great, or recapitulate, redo the day. Go through the day. Whatever happened that was wrong. And picture, you know, somebody said something really mean or somebody was mean on the road. Picture that you were driving and that this other car let you in.

Nancy: 51:45

Or picture that the person at the office who said something really not nasty said something really nice and how that felt it's always not to just think it, but to feel it, and as you're thinking like this is going to go great tomorrow, or you know somebody's ill in the family, picture them at their best, and what does it feel like to know that they're good, what does it feel like that the person said something really nice to you? Because the combination of the mind and the feelings really helps program your subconscious for the night, not to mention during the day. But I'm talking about falling asleep in peace, mm-hmm.

Di: 52:33

So if I were to create the perfect sleep environment, the top three elements light, I bet, would be the first.

Nancy: 52:45

So cool, dark and quiet are the main things I always add. Uncluttered, because if your bedroom's a mess you know like I can't go to my bedrooms pretty meticulously cure, because I'm the same way. But so cool, you don't want to go to bed too hot because my daughter's apartment something was wrong with the heating in her building in New York and it was just like so hot. My other daughter spent the night there on her way to a wedding last week and it was like 78 degrees and she said you, caroline, you got to do something about this and she did. They're finally figuring it out. So cool. What temperature? I don't know. You're going to hear 65 to 68. What are you comfortable with? What's your bed partner comfortable with? Do what works for you it depends on the season and adjust your what you sleep in. If you sleep in pajamas, whatever natural fabrics are better in both your bed linens and what you what you sleep in. So adjust that accordingly.

Nancy: 53:48

So cool, dark, dark, dark, dark, dark Evolved in caves. It was dark and you know you don't want a lot of lights around your room. If you don't have blackout curtains and you get a lot of street light or light in the morning and you like it, then maybe you need it and you're not sleeping well. If it works for you and you like it, then maybe you need it and you're not sleeping well. If it works for you and you get up with the sunrise, fine. But if you don't, maybe you need an eye mask. And actually I just discovered for these eye masks that actually are sort of concave inside, so when you blink they are not touching the fabric. They're very cool, cut out, so they're cups. So when you oh, that's nice With adjustable strap, oh, that's nice With adjustable strap. So that's a solution.

Nancy: 54:31

If you don't have curtains, quiet, you know. If it's noise from the street somewhere else, well, if it's in the house, you have to see what can we do to change that. I'm not talking about a crying baby or something. But if you, you know you deal with that, as you're going to deal with it. But if it's noise and you need a white noise machine, just don't put headphones on your head. Right, you need a fan, whatever you need, but it's cool, dark and quiet to set the stage, and comfortable and and uncluttered. What did I leave?

Di: 55:03

out. No, you, you, you are. This is a lullaby.

Nancy: 55:10

Oh, that's okay. Go in your room everybody and do an inventory tonight and see how many lights there are in your room Under the table, under a desk, under this on the wall the TV.

Di: 55:24

My baby's monitor has a green light. It's not a hatch, is it? It's the, it's the. It's the tiniest, it's, it's a nothing monitor.

Nancy: 55:35

Why did they do this? I?

Di: 55:36

don't know.

Nancy: 55:37

It's just, you know, I don't know, just maybe put a paper tape over it a little bit, so you can still see the light.

Di: 55:44

I'm going to try to hide it somehow. Well turn it, but will it? It will work if I turn it around.

Nancy: 55:50

Yeah. And what happens when it goes off? What does the baby monitor do If you need, if it's telling you just hear the baby. I just hear the baby. Oh, just turn it around. Or the light. The light only tells you it's on right, Correct? Put a piece of electrical tape over the light.

Di: 56:08

Yeah, it's. I can't believe, now that I'm understanding the light thing, I can't believe they would put a green, strong light on the baby monitor.

Nancy: 56:18

Yeah, it's it. Look, I'm telling you I could tell so many stories of products I've seen and I'm like how important and basic Wow.

Nancy: 56:34

Yep and oh everybody. If you've got blue light blocking glasses and you think that's so happy to talk about the light again. If you've got blue light blocking glasses and you think that gives you permission to watch the news, scary movies and other stuff before bed, problem, you may have dissipated the blue light exposure, but your brain is getting stimulation that is not good to surrender to slumber. So be conscious of what the quality is of the material you are watching absolutely, or reading. So you know blue light blocking glasses. Look, I had at png.

Nancy: 57:17

There was a woman who worked night shifts. She was rotating, actually day shifts, night shifts, and she get home, um, and she, the lights in her house were so bright she would actually shower in her blue light blockers at night before bed and she couldn't believe how much better she was sleeping because you know she dimmed the lights in the house. But just actually do an inventory in the you know, see what lights are you're exposed to throughout your house in the hour before bed. Just, you know, dim everything and it's just just biology versus behavior.

Di: 57:52

That's so great.

Nancy: 57:54

All game.

Di: 57:57

I enjoyed this conversation so much and it actually made me feel cozy, and I'm probably going to go to bed soon Because I'm on the other side of the day.

Nancy: 58:15

Very much so Thank you for doing this so late. No, thank you. I've done stuff at two in the morning for Asia. So you know, sometimes you just say it's gonna be okay, sometimes you just say it's going to be okay?

Di: 58:26

Absolutely, of course I. In order to talk to amazing people like you, I, I have. I have gotten up at 2am Yep.

Nancy: 58:35

Well, I am really hoping that, for anybody listening, that you've left with some practical tips, because that was your goal, and that you feel encouraged, inspired, hopeful that your sleep can improve. Is it going to be great every night? No, mine isn't always, but good sleep is possible.

Di: 59:00

And that's very important the knowledge that it's not going to be every single night, and that's okay.

Nancy: 59:14

Nancy. Thank you so, so much. My honor and pleasure, and all of you out there, thank you for taking your time, precious time, to listen and you know just, oh, and my website you told me to mention is thesleepambassadorcom. Yes, and it will be linked, and I have two courses. Dio provide the links that may be helpful to you, that are incredibly user-friendly and we all need you know we're not in this alone, although no one can sleep for you but you.

Di: 59:51

This is true, hey. Thanks so much for tuning in, and if this hit home, please share it with your crew. Likes, comments, shares show your loved ones you care.