Speaker 1: 0:00

How exciting is it that I get to have Virginia Kinkle back on the show. I'm so excited. We were actually just talking about the fact that once again we are tackling a topic that is really just so important for me personally. It's so close to my heart and it's kind of like definitely a big chunk of my mission in life, so let's tackle it. Women over 35. And it's kind of like definitely a big chunk of my mission in life, so let's tackle it. Women over 35. Welcome to Bodyholic with Dee. No fads, just facts. I'm Dee and I'm here to help you ditch the noise and build a life you love. Let's go.

Speaker 1: 0:40

Oh but wait, I'm not a doctor, so use your common sense. Now let's dive in. Oh, but wait, I'm not a doctor.

Speaker 2: 0:46

So use your common sense. Now let's dive in.

Speaker 1: 0:47

Awesome. What Virginia. What do you not that you're over 35, you're like 29 and a half right.

Speaker 2: 0:59

Yeah, of course, you know, in my heart.

Speaker 1: 1:00

that's exactly where I am forever, exactly so, from that 29 and a half year old perspective. So from that 29 and a half year old perspective, what can you tell me about, in general, what you're seeing? How is it to train women over 35 and how do you think they feel?

Speaker 2: 1:19

Absolutely One of the biggest changes that happens. Well, really, two of the biggest changes that happen in particular with women is aging is inevitable, right? No matter what we are all going to age, it's going to affect us physically, it's going to affect us physiologically, it's going to affect us emotionally, it's going to affect us in terms of our lives, to affect us in terms of our lives, and so I kind of want to preface anything before I even start saying it is life will become much easier if you work with that instead of against that, and I think it's very easy. You know, I just joked a couple seconds ago like, yeah, of course, I'm only 39 and a half. We all have this idea of how we feel, and I think it puts us in a little bit of denial right of not really acknowledging that I am, in fact, almost 39 and not actually 29 and a half. So I think that's the first thing is acknowledging that it is inevitable. It is something that we are going to experience and it is going to involve changing.

Speaker 2: 2:30

What I've noticed with my clients, especially in this age range, are really those two main factors. Number one is the changes that are going to occur physiologically and are going to affect your body in terms of how it feels, how it responds to certain changes with nutrition, with exercise, how it recovers, what it looks like, how it moves physically. That physiological component is adjusting and shifting and it's something new and different that we have to grow accustomed to working with. The other thing is just changes in demands of life. You and I were just talking about having young kids and you know, 10 years ago I didn't have young kids.

Speaker 2: 3:10

I could kind of do whatever I want, whenever I want. I could work really hard. I could go to the gym for a couple hours on a Friday afternoon if I wanted. I could prioritize things like meal planning because I was taking care of me, and that becomes so much easier. But as the load of what you're bearing increases, especially if you have young children that require a lot of demanding attention it's the nature of parenting kids there is a shift in that as well. So when you have these two factors coming into play where you don't have as much time for yourself and to be able to do all these things you want and at the same time working against that are these natural physiological changes that kind of post-35 window becomes really tough for a lot of women.

Speaker 1: 4:04

Yes, I'm. I'm, of course, like nodding big time because of you know the the topic of kids is is it's big, it's?

Speaker 1: 4:14

big and it's and it's multifold and, um, you know, I, I could have said 40 plus, but I I think 35, think 35, for me, I'm just sharing, for me, I think 35 is important because it's women are typically transitioning into, or firmly, or transitioning from, their reproductive prime. Now that my huge hesitation just now was actually coming from the fact that, um, this is not a hundred percent true for PCOS women, um, but let's just, that's a kind of disclaimer, let's put that aside, Um, but let's just that's a kind of disclaimer, let's put that aside, Um, even though it's a large chunk of the um of the population, but, um.

Speaker 1: 5:11

so there, there really are hormonal fluctuations that I think do begin, uh, around 35, even though that's not considered, you know, midlife, but you know there are things that that start happening at 35, including sarcopenia, which is age related muscle loss, and so that's kind of why I decided that I'm really interested in asking you about 35. So, in terms of training women, do you like, do you consider the hormonal shifts? How do you consider the hormonal shifts? And is perimenopause, do you find it really a thing when you're training these women?

Speaker 2: 5:55

Yeah, absolutely, and I think that there is. Whether you're kind of looking at women at age 35, age 40, it's so individual, as women really start to see this shift, that it's hard to market very specifically on a calendar. But it is kind of once you transition again here I am in denial into this kind of middle-age phase of life as things shift and changes start to occur hormonally. So what we see in this age range is a shift in body composition. So you talked about sarcopenia. So sarcopenia is that natural decrease in muscle mass that occurs with aging. Sarcopenia can affect things like your balance, your quality of life, your ability to do things day to day and, of course, it can affect body composition. When we talk about body composition, body composition is the ratio of fat mass to fat-free mass in your body. So in order to have improved body composition, we want less fat mass and we want more fat-free mass. Fat-free mass is both lean mass and bone mineral content. So that's the good stuff. That is what during this kind of midlife phase, as women face these hormonal changes, starts to decrease. So if we were to do nothing and just kind of continue status quo, those numbers are going to start to decrease. Similarly, fat mass. Up until women get into that later age about 70, that mass is going to start to increase. So if we have a natural decrease in the fat-free mass, the lean mass and bone, and we have a natural increase in fat mass, women are going to see changes in their body composition. Even if all of the factors are the same, they're still doing the same thing, workout-wise or life-wise. They're still eating the same way. So what this really entails is having to make a shift, same way. So what this really entails is having to make a shift.

Speaker 2: 8:10

One thing I like to say to all of my clients, or that people that I work with, is if you want to see a change, you need to make a change. It is very common that people want to keep doing the same thing and get a different result. I think that's human nature, right? It's like well, this is, you know, I wake up and I go for my run and I eat my whatever for breakfast and I've always been, you know, 20 pounds less. But here I am now, 20 pounds more, and my clothes don't fit the same way, which maybe historically that's true, you know, maybe that stuff has always worked for you, if you're just looking at your body composition or what your weight is or how much fat mass you have. But as hormones start to change and shift, we need to make a change.

Speaker 2: 8:52

So when I'm working with women in this age bracket, one of the biggest things is getting their mindset around the fact that they do have to adapt and they do have to make a shift, and I I truly believe that women are very open to this.

Speaker 2: 9:07

This is something completely anecdotal that I have found in women that I work with is they are much more open to being understanding and accepting of this change and therefore making a change, because they're experiencing it in their body, as opposed to men.

Speaker 2: 9:24

Yes, correct, and it is.

Speaker 2: 9:27

You know, I'm not going to go on some total tangent that way, but I often work with men that are in their 40s 50s and they say, yeah, but when I was in high school I could bench press 225 pounds, not understanding that the last 30 years of their life they've spent sedentary, with a very poor diet, traveling a lot for work, being stuck at a desk, being on emotional overwhelm, and they just there's this like dichotomy of the me before and the me now, and I don't look at everything that happened in between.

Speaker 2: 10:01

How interesting, yeah, isn't that fascinating? And women are so much more accepting. And again, if you've had children, you've gone through these big changes. I'm just going through your menstrual cycle in a month, like you, have these big changes, and so I think it's something that, naturally, women are a little bit more equipped to handle, so they tend to be very open. But that is something that women really have to grasp their head around is, in order to see a change. If you'd like to make a change, you need to create that change from the habits standpoint.

Speaker 1: 10:38

First, I love the men versus women thing. That's really interesting. I'm also considering my professional experience, where it's that what you described of like the guy who was saying, but I bench pressed this and that when I was in high school, it really is just throughout. This is absolutely true where the it's so surprising to every single person by the way, including myself, you know, I'm also I'm I'm 39 and it's so surprising that, like, something is now different, that um, uh, I'm not able to uh, run the way I used to run. There are a little bit more aches and and you know, there, there, but there is definitely I'm.

Speaker 1: 11:33

I'm personally always very awake and aware to the fact that what's going on, what do I need to shift, what do I need to change? But that's because it's my profession. When I talk to my clients, I often feel that they are very, very surprised and, um, you know, I don't want to say this is also kind of uh, uh, a little star that we're going to put, you know, like a footnote for professionals out there that, um, it's okay that everybody's surprised constantly. You know, like you're going to hear women at above 35 be surprised each time, over and over again, because that's, that's just the nature of it. That's part of it, yeah.

Speaker 2: 12:20

Yeah, yeah, sorry, no, I was just going to like echo that is. I totally feel the same way and this is my profession, similarly, but I am noticing these stuff, these things that are happening and this stuff that's kind of going on in my body and how it's changing, and so, very similarly, it's kind of you have these little aches and pains and I'm in this 24 seven and it still is like, okay, I'm noticing all of this stuff happening.

Speaker 1: 12:48

Right. So, especially like for a younger, younger trainer I'm thinking of like, um, you know how many women above the age of 35 are showing up to that trainer's uh workout and saying, you know, I never used to be like this? And the trainer is probably already thinking like, yeah, I, I, I get it. You're, you sound like you women, sound like a broken record, but, um, but then imagine you know what it's like for someone who's not in this 24 seven and it's just, this is like part of the cycle of life and and uh, to kind of hold it, um, hold it and be super compassionate and respectful, I think is so important.

Speaker 2: 13:29

And I think you totally hit the nail on the head is having that compassion and understanding, because our roles as fitness and health professionals is to help guide our clients along this journey, and if you're sitting there and you're kind of discounting everything that somebody is saying, whether it's physiological changes that are happening or it's, you know, there's kind of been this trend on Instagram that I always love looking at where it is, you know, a video of a woman with her kids and her job and doing all these sorts of things, and it's like how I feel when a like 22 year old male trainer tells me we all have the same 24 hours in a day. I just love that. But it's having that empathy and understanding that their life is not your life physiologically, mentally, and for better, for worse, whatever but it is being able to be on a level of understanding. I also think that there is something in our age group and women that are even older than us is. I feel like we were kind of on the cusp of strength training and fitness becoming something that's a little bit more normalized for women.

Speaker 2: 14:43

Now I go to the gym like my commercial gym that I go to and there are women squatting heavy. Oftentimes I'll be at the squat racks and it's filled with women. There's women bench pressing, there's women hip thrusting. They're there to lift heavy, not just to fill up the ellipticals. And I think if you look at us when we were, you know, in our teens, in our early 20s, all we were trying to do was get skinny so we could look like these girls in the magazine, and strength training wasn't even a facet of it. So what you also have to think about with women in this age range isn't just what they're doing here now, but this like history of what we've been taught to believe and think in this like low carb world. And this cardio, cardio, cardio. Why would I ever lift weights? I don't want to get bulky mindset, yeah, and that is like a whole layer in and of itself to try to unwind.

Speaker 1: 15:38

You know, Virginia, I wasn't even thinking of this when I was like, oh, we've got to talk about this, because I was thinking like this is an important topic. Every professional not every woman, but like obviously every woman needs to listen to this episode, but every professional, no matter what age, needs to really listen. Um, because we, we really are talking about the professionalism and the global holistic situation you're in when you have a human being coming up to you and saying I need this, this, this from you, and you know they're only saying what they're saying, but there's all that behind, which is immense. Yes, so thank you so much for saying that.

Speaker 1: 16:37

That's like that's going to stick with me for a while.

Speaker 2: 16:40

You know, there's a lot of women I work with that still it's kind of this tug of war in their mind. They're like I know that I should be lifting heavy and I know I should be prioritizing protein and complex carbs, and I know this. But 20 year old me, teenager me, early thirties year old me, says no, no, no, we don't want to get fat. If we do that stuff we're going to get too big. So I need to go and get on the elliptical for 30 minutes and and it still is. You know, I find myself in those moments at times too, and that's what's scary. Like we talk about. I'm in this 24 seven. This is my profession. I know as much, if not more, than most people that I need to stay this path, but it's still as hard to avoid those little um feelings and thoughts of habit over death.

Speaker 1: 17:37

Right, it's. It's the world you grew up in. Yeah, it reminds me. I don't remember if we talked about this or not, but it reminds me of this workout video that I saw pop up of Kim Kardashian. Did I tell? Did I? Did we talk about?

Speaker 2: 17:54

this no I don't think so.

Speaker 1: 17:55

Kim Kardashian is doing a workout with a trainer. I actually stopped it, stopped me in my tracks. I had to understand what was going on, cause she was lifting like these I don't know, maybe it was half a pound, very small and the trainer's telling her like you've got to lift, and they're joking about the fact that bicep curls are her least favorite exercise because she's so scared of big arms. And so you know, kim Kardashian this is older. Kim Kardashian is kind of like rolling her her eyes but like I'm going to do it anyway. And she's going like. She's like going like this right, like these, these very like, not exactly Right. And the and the trainer's like but we've got to work them. And I'm thinking to myself this is bizarre, this is so bizarre, but it's.

Speaker 1: 18:41

It's the classic state of mind.

Speaker 2: 18:44

Yes, yes. And I think what also happens in a scenario like this, especially in women who are not familiar with what strength training is, is thinking that that's strength training. Is thinking that picking up a half a pound dumbbell or, um, you know these cycling classes where you're on a bike but then all of a sudden you pick up your two pound dumbbells and do a bunch of this stuff, that that is strength training? And it is not. It is riding a bike, holding dumbbells in your hands, doing I mean, I guess, if you want to classify it as muscular endurance, sure, but that is not going to be what will help you offset the sarcopenia and the bone density.

Speaker 1: 19:27

What will help you offset the sarcopenia and bone density?

Speaker 2: 19:30

So, yeah, so great question. So true, strength training is being able to lift weights, really ideally in a rep range of like five to 10 reps. That is putting you at a point of failure, meaning if you were to hold that half pound dumbbell and do this, by the time you get to 10 reps you should not be able to do any more. That is your point of really working to failure, and with a half pound dumbbell, obviously that is not going to be the case. So it's important for women to be in a gym setting. It doesn't necessarily mean it needs to be a commercial gym, but it needs to be somewhere where you have equipment that creates that resistance. It could be at a home gym, it could be at a studio, it could be, you know, with some things body weight, pushups, pull-ups Certainly for beginners, yep, absolutely. But it needs to be something that allows you to work to the point of muscular fatigue and muscular failure in a safe way.

Speaker 2: 20:39

For a lot of women that may mean working with a trainer and making that investment in yourself so that you feel familiarized and comfortable with it, or with a friend or with a significant other or family member that understands what they're doing, so they can familiarize you with various exercises Things like squats, things like deadlifts, things like bench press, things like overhead press.

Speaker 2: 21:08

Those are not just great compound movements, meaning they're using multiple joints and therefore more muscle in the movement, but they're going to get us moving through various ranges of motion that will allow our body to utilize a majority of the large muscles in our body under stress. And so having a foundation of fitness where we're doing true strength training multiple times a week, at least three times a week, that is going to help set you up to be at a point where you are going to start to be able to see that progress and that change and offset sarcopenia, offset habits, and start to be able to build muscle. But it has to be working at a point where you are getting to that muscular fatigue and failure in a safe way.

Speaker 1: 22:03

I'm just going to reiterate. So I guess a safe way would mean that you're hitting failure means that you're still in good form and being able to perform in good form. Good form and not being able to perform in good form. So yeah, you're not taking it to a point where, like, you're doing weird things with your body, right, exactly, yeah, I wanted to underline what you were saying.

Speaker 2: 22:28

Yes, and I think you totally like specified it more is it's definitely doing it with good form to make sure that A we're not injuring ourselves right If you're injuring yourself and setting yourself back problematic, but B that if we have good form, we are utilizing the muscle that we want to use. Your body is going to put that load of the weight somewhere. Our goal is to put the load of that weight on the muscles that we want to put that load of the weight somewhere. Our goal is to put the load of that weight on the muscles that we want to put that load on. If our form is out of whack, you could put that load in muscles that we don't necessarily want to work on.

Speaker 2: 23:07

A common one is, you know, upper traps. We can do things where we start to shrug here and maybe instead of using our deltoids, our actual shoulder muscles, we're shrugging and just using our traps. So this does all the work and obviously want to avoid things like that. But also we want to avoid putting that load and that stress in the joints. We want to keep it in the muscle so that we have that muscle under stress, so that muscle can grow and we're not just relying on our joints.

Speaker 1: 23:38

Absolutely. That's part of that whole preventative mindset in general. There are women above 35 who show up and say the number on the scale is going up.

Speaker 1: 23:55

I don't know why I haven't changed anything. Number of the scale on the scale is going up. I don't know why I haven't changed anything, or the BMI is they're no longer where they want to be. Um, you know we can say a whole lot about BMI, but it's still widely used. Um. But what do you think? Uh, some, uh other indicators might be used that are overlooked, maybe in terms of healthy body composition and understanding the nuances of overall health and wellbeing.

Speaker 2: 24:28

So there's two different ways I'm going to take this. I'm going to. I want to kind of talk about two totally separate things that are both a very, very, very important factors in it. Number one is mobility. So a huge risk for women as they age is falls and if you have low bone density, the risk of breaks and fractures that come along with those falls.

Speaker 2: 24:53

So having good mobility isn't necessarily the way, you know, we used to think of it. If I'm in this yoga class and there's this really gumby lady who can do the splits and do this like bridge, sure, that may be one way to look at mobility, but mobility is the ability to go through full ranges of motion of your joint and, if we think about in a very practical skill set, your ability to do things throughout your day in a safe and effective manner. That means being able to, you know, catch yourself. If you trip over a stair before falling down, you're able to kind of get your legs in a position, your arms in a position to catch yourself, because you've gotten in that position before your body's more familiarized with it. It's things like getting up and down off of the ground If, god forbid, you're by yourself and you fall, can you actually get yourself up off of the floor again? It's things like quality of life of you know, I used to when I was a young trainer, I used to think this was such a cheesy thought, and the older I get I really see how valuable it is for grandparents to get down on the ground to be able to play with their grandkids.

Speaker 2: 26:01

I mean it's I watch my parents, who are both 70. My dad just turned 71 and my mom is 70. And the way they are able to play and interact with my daughters is unlike so many people of their age. And it's so valuable because my daughters they eat that up. They love that they can play with their grandparents. So it's the mobility component is hugely important.

Speaker 2: 26:25

Like I first started off saying something like yoga is a great way to focus on that balance and that mobility. That's huge. But strength training of you know, sitting here and going into an overhead press repetitiously over time is getting us more mobile in our shoulder joints. Doing squats, doing deadlifts, all of that is getting us more mobile to go through these ranges of motion, build muscle in these ranges of motion, that becomes very practical. And so I think again, if you're getting on an elliptical for 30 minutes an hour every day. The only motion that you're good at is this back and forth, and it is very minimal through your upper body, it's very minimal through your hips and through your knees. Sure, it has that cardiovascular benefit, but you're missing out on the strength training piece of it and you're missing out on that ability to go through ranges of motion and improve mobility.

Speaker 1: 27:26

So I think that is one very important component. I you can tell that I'm like so excited about everything you're saying, because I'm just sitting here like with nodding, nod nodding basically because you touched on a pain point for me, where my mom is 74 and for years she can't get onto the ground. That's like a really big thing. That's getting up from the ground is completely impossible, um, and she loves her grandchildren and they love her and they want to play with her. So we, we have like a stool so she could get close to them. But you know, this is, this is um, it's a big deal, it's a big deal and it's and it is a little bit of a pain point.

Speaker 1: 28:15

Um, another thing that you mentioned was the fact that you know, used to think that all these activities of daily living and the quality of life it was like for old people. Yeah, the truth is, um, that the older I get, and also it could be due to my, my profession, but, um, if you don't stay focused on these things throughout your life, then you can't maintain these things because you're going to lose them. Yes, so so I mean it really, like you. You said so many important things, um, and and you know the listeners or whoever's viewing actually won't see how much I was nodding my head because it's going to be just you on the screen for that, but it's, it's so incredibly huge I'm going to pull that out and make sure everybody hears that.

Speaker 2: 29:13

Yes, and I think exactly like you just said, if you suddenly are to wake up on your 70th birthday and realize I can't get down on the ground, I need to do something about that. That is great and that is a very important to realize okay, this is a skillset and it you know. When you're younger, to think that getting down on the ground is a skillset almost seems like impossible to comprehend. But it is a skill set that can get lost. And if you realize, okay, this is a skill set, I've lost this, now I need to work on getting it better, that is great. What is even better is preventing yourself from ever losing that skill set.

Speaker 2: 29:54

So what do we do before something becomes a problem? There is knowledge and awareness out there that you women over 35 will lose muscle, will lose bone density with age, will lose mobility with age, have a higher risk of falling. We know this. So why would we wait until something is a problem to start to address it when we can address it now? If I know I'm going to be losing muscle and it is going to be on a steady decline, what am I doing now, before that's really truly problematic, to help offset that If I know I'm going to lose mobility. What am I doing now to offset that, to make sure I don't get to that point where it's lost?

Speaker 2: 30:36

And so I think for people who are younger and maybe this isn't problematic for you right now or people in your life how do we wrap our head around? Okay, but it will be one day, and if we just kind of coast along and wait till it's a problem, you're going to be digging yourself out of a hole. Why not take that preventative approach now, so that it doesn't become as much's a problem? You're gonna be digging yourself out of a hole. Why not take that preventative approach now, so that it doesn't become as much of a problem down the line?

Speaker 2: 31:03

So you're basically taking it to mobility and preventative action right, correct, and I think the strength training really falls under that preventative action. Again, if we're like, oh well, until I hit menopause and I start to have these hormonal changes and lose muscle, I don't want to worry about that now, I'm too busy. I have other things that you can start to incorporate now so that all of a sudden you're not waking up one day and having to totally change your habits and your behaviors. And so, whether it's mobility or strength training, what is it that I can do now to start to incorporate so that it's part of my normal life? And I think that is something that is very valuable and is very often overlooked. It's addressing the problem when it arises, not preventatively. Addressing how I can reduce the efficacy of this problem.

Speaker 1: 32:10

I'm going to go so far as to say that what we're talking about is preventative medicine. Yes, I'm actually going to make, I'm going to feel comfortable and I'm going to say that strength training, building muscle mass, is, in my opinion, the basis to preventative medicine.

Speaker 2: 32:32

Yes, absolutely. I could not agree more with that.

Speaker 1: 32:37

So it's so. What were you going to say?

Speaker 1: 32:47

No, I was just gonna say I think that's so huge for people, but especially women, especially those like in our age group that have grown up not believing that is huge, that is huge and and so tying back to what you said in the beginning about you know, lifestyle issues and uh points of life and um, and also the mindset, uh, so there are diverse lifestyles and so many women who are dealing with time constraints, especially over the age of 35, between careers and family, exactly like you just said. So I want us to think about realistic and sustainable approaches to exercise. We can even talk about nutrition here, um, to really support healthy body composition without the drastic, unsustainable measures, like there's a lot of people who are coming up to women and just saying, but you need to do this, but yes, it's like you said, the 24 hour thing does not look the same for everyone.

Speaker 2: 33:55

No at all, and I think that whatever changes that people make into their life and their routine, it has to be something sustainable, because you are living with yourself for the remainder of your life and if it is not something that is sustainable, you are always chasing something else and chasing something else and getting yourself out of these holes and having this pendulum swing, and so it has to be sustainable. So, as we kind of talk about that, I want to kind of mention so I had said there's the two things there's the mobility component, but you just touched on it is the nutrition component. That is a huge piece of it as well, because if we are training our body in a way to build a muscle, but we are not fueling our body in a way to build a muscle, we are at a deficit. And going back to what we were talking about earlier, is a lot of women in this age bracket it's eat less, go on a diet like you'll be okay, you'll look skinny, and that's what we want, and so again, there's this kind of mindset shift.

Speaker 2: 35:04

But women especially need to prioritize lean protein sources, they need to prioritize complex carbohydrates to be sure that they're able to build muscle at this point.

Speaker 2: 35:20

So having a lunch that consists of, you know, a grilled chicken breast and some quinoa and some veggies tossed in is going to serve you a much better purpose than a lunch of a salad that's loaded with veggies that has some kind of like oil-based dressing you know, maybe you have a couple of nuts and seeds on there that is going to be very fats dominant. It's important to make sure we're getting fats, but that salad is fats dominant. Sure, you're getting your micronutrients from the veggies, and that's important, but you are drastically missing out on protein and complex carbs. And that's what a lot of women really truly are missing out on is lean protein at every meal First thing in the morning, with your breakfast in the middle of your day, your lunch and your snacks that you have in the evening. Lean protein and then complex carbs, especially following your workouts, your strength training workouts. Things like grains, rices, potatoes, cereals, breads, things that allow our body to repair and rebuild that muscle. So nutrition is very, very important.

Speaker 1: 36:36

Yes, and the the hormonal fluctuations? Um, you know we're talking about nutrition here. I, I, I like us to also get into um the shifts that the hormonal fluctuations uh cause in metabolism. So we will. It is possible that these hormonal fluctuations can also lead to increased abdominal fat, correct?

Speaker 2: 37:02

Like the distribution basically of the fat can change.

Speaker 1: 37:06

Yep, so do you want to do you want to say a few things about that and nutrition or anything? I'll do.

Speaker 2: 37:13

I'll do a quick little tangent on that Cause I could talk about that forever but then I want to like kind of go back to what you were saying of how do we make sustainable changes.

Speaker 2: 37:21

I feel like we could talk for a million years about this. But one thing that we see with body composition at body mass, we use DEXA data to track how people's body composition is changing their, their fat mass, their fat free mass, changing their fat mass, their fat-free mass, their lean mass, their bone mineral content. But we also look at their visceral fat, so the fat that's in your belly, in your android region, from the ribs to the pelvis, and how that tracks and trends over time. And what we really see is, without intentional efforts to improve your visceral fat, that is going to be on a steady incline and that has a higher association with metabolic disease, diabetes, heart disease, all of the stuff we want to stay away from. That reduces our quality of life and our health. If we see that visceral fat continue to increase, we have a higher likelihood of all of that stuff happening and so, without very intentional efforts to decrease that, that sort of becomes on the steady incline and you know, at the very least aesthetically, most people are like oh, I feel like I have more fat around here, I feel like I can't wear the bathing suits that I want to or the clothes that I want to, and so it's going to require intentional lifestyle changes to help offset that, which actually segues really well into what I was going to say about having the ways in which we can create sustainable change. Ways in which we can create sustainable change.

Speaker 2: 39:01

So when I work with clients, I often talk about this triangle of being able to see results. So there's three sides to this triangle and if any of those sides aren't complete, obviously the triangle is not going to be a strong, supportive shape in helping you achieve your goals. So the three sides and the three pillars of this triangle is number one exercise and exercise. I view as that true strength training that we were talking about, making sure that is a foundational aspect of your life on a weekly basis, multiple times a week, every week of the year, not just oh, it's, you know, the start of a new year and I'm going to do this six week bootcamp. Whatever approach to strength training, this is something that is ongoing forever, until the day you die Strength training as the exercise.

Speaker 1: 39:53

I always say you're always under construction. Yes, I love that phrase.

Speaker 2: 39:57

That is a very very good one Exercise makes sense. The next pillar is going to be nutrition, like we just talked about, getting lean protein, getting complex carbs, getting fruits, getting vegetables, getting healthy polyunsaturated, monounsaturated fats as part of the foundation of what we are eating, again, on a daily basis, not just for a short period of time, not just when I feel like it, not just Mondays through Fridays, but the weekends we give up. It is seven days a week, 365 days out of the year. Yes, there's going to be times that you go out to a dinner, you eat pizza, you are going on vacation, but if almost always, our nutrition is following this foundation of lean proteins, complex carbs, healthy fats, vegetables, fruit, you are going to be in a good spot.

Speaker 2: 40:56

And the third component of this, which is really the hardest for most, I think, is the lifestyle component, and under lifestyle is where I put things like daily movement, things like going for walks or runs, stuff that we used to think about as that cardio component. That is something that needs to be part of our lifestyle. It is not I'm going to the gym to walk on the treadmill for 20 minutes to get my you know, 2000 extra steps. It is part of our daily life. What am I doing from the minute I wake up to the minute I go to bed to maximize my daily movement of getting out, of moving around and going for these walks?

Speaker 2: 41:44

Lifestyle also includes things like recovery. What is your sleep like? What is your stress like? How are you handling changes in sleep that inevitably will happen and changes in stress that will inevitably happen? What are your emotional and social relationships with people? And so, I think, the lifestyle piece, what's your support system with all of this? I think that is the part that's very complex and can often be what falls apart and allows those other sides of the triangle to not provide support. So, exercise, go to the gym, strength training nutrition, focus on lean proteins, complex carbs. But what is that lifestyle component? The daily movement, the sleep, the recovery, the stress, the relationships piece, and how does that hold up our supportive triangle?

Speaker 2: 42:32

I could cry no, you're just I mean it's, it really is no but you are so.

Speaker 1: 42:39

You are so smart. You are so smart and you are so valuable to whoever comes and trains with you and anybody who's listening. Like everything you're saying. I honestly um, I didn't want to interrupt you, but half the time I was like amen in my head, hallelujah, amen In my head.

Speaker 2: 43:04

I really, really appreciate that.

Speaker 1: 43:06

Thank you Um yes, and the way you describe the lifestyle. I also just want to throw in the notion of meat, which is the non-exercise thermogenesis, which is pretty much that it's like can we just keep moving throughout the day? Because actually that's what our body is meant to do, Right? Exactly and at the designated time of the gym.

Speaker 2: 43:40

Right, it is not. I have this 30 minute window and that's when I focus on moving. It's how am I doing that throughout the day, from a mobility standpoint, from a cardiovascular standpoint, to your point, the non-exercise activity thermogenesis. How am I literally burning fat throughout the day, 24 hours a day? Not just the 30 minutes that I'm at the gym, or not just that, like epoch, of focusing on fat loss following exercise, but how am I doing something all the time, throughout the day? And that can be really challenging. But as you start to establish those little habits I mean little things that I work on with people is have a small glass of water by your desk when it runs out, get up, especially people that work from home. Get up, go, walk to the kitchen, fill it up, come back down.

Speaker 2: 44:29

You have to go to the bathroom. Go to the bathroom upstairs. Find the furthest bathroom in your house. Get yourself 10 extra steps to go there to do that. Get outside, get fresh air. Go for a walk, first thing in the morning, last thing at night, in the middle of the day, when you have five minutes between me. It's not about making these grand changes over time, but it's the sum of all of those little parts, day in and day out, week after week, month after month, year after year. That'll allow you to get to those later parts of in and day out, week after week, month after month, year after year. That'll allow you to get to those later parts of life and have this quality of life that is going to allow you to be able to get down on the ground and play with your grandkids or do the things that you enjoy Right.

Speaker 1: 45:11

Right, I have this question that's burning, but I feel like it might be a rabbit hole. Let me go for it anyway, because we might just start a new episode, right now.

Speaker 1: 45:25

We can just go part two, right, right? So you know you were talking about complex carbs and whole grains and, of course, and whole grains, and of course I am seeing these trends and hearing from people about, uh, this. You know there are so many different names now for pretty much keto. Uh, the keto, like I don't know, there's, there's this caveman thing there's. I don't know, I can't even keep up, but technically what it means it's low carb, low carb grain, and it's there's like a party going on on social media also with, like, with cholesterol and all kinds of things. That it's, like you mentioned, like there's a pendulum with trends. Um, so I, if you can, just briefly, um, tell me what you think about this keto style yes, I, you could like again, totally go around like down this rabbit hole.

Speaker 2: 46:23

So, before I kind of really deep dive into it, my mom used to say this thing and I think we could all kind of look back at our childhood of certain things that would like drive you absolutely nuts when you're younger, but now as an adult, you're like I get why you said that. Now, here I am going to be reiterating that to my children, who will probably think the same, and the cycle perpetuates itself. But my mom was very into health and fitness and she always used to tell me that balance is so important and it was like I was like okay, mom, whatever, okay, mom, whatever, but this balance, this idea of balance, is so important. So, when it comes to our health and our nutrition, not saying that anything is the only thing I can eat and anything I absolutely can't eat and if it's off limits, that is what's going to allow you having balance, is what's going to allow you to have a sustainable approach to life and nutrition. Now, there are always going to be exceptions If, for a medical reason, you cannot have something understood. But that segues again into the idea of keto, and keto was started for epileptics right as an approach to help with people who have epileptic seizures. If there is a medical reason as to why you are doing something, understood, you need to do it. But the idea of keto, where you're really reducing carbs, which are your energy source, and you're relying on fats and utilizing that as an energy source, becomes popular because social media likes to like romanticize these things. But about eight years ago we used to host these workshops that were for trainers, all in the DC area, where they could come and they could listen to different speakers on different topics.

Speaker 2: 48:09

And there was a woman who was a scientist at the NIH and she was strictly studying the cellular approach on different diet trends. So I believe she did like vegan, paleo and maybe like intermittent fasting or that is amazing, but it was so fascinating. So she's not studying the person as a whole, but like what's happening on the cellular level and like I literally have chills right now thinking about this because it was something that resonated so deeply with me and you, like we'll randomly take these nuggets of information from people that they stick with you for so long and she goes. There's not enough longevity in the research of keto as a lifestyle trend to really, truly have a grasp on it. She goes.

Speaker 2: 48:58

But what I'm seeing on the cellular level is it is absolutely petrifying and I would never tell anyone to ever do keto, because essentially what you're doing is you are running on your backup generator. Your energy source comes from carbohydrates. Relying on fats as an energy source is your backup generator when you don't have the carbohydrate readily available. And so if you are constantly putting your body under stress of relying on your backup generator, what's going to happen? And it was just something that stuck so profoundly with me.

Speaker 2: 49:29

I see it like seriousness and like the urgency she had to tell us this in the research that she's seeing, and you know it'd be interesting now, eight years later, to follow up with her research to be honest, I've not but to really understand more of a grasp. But when somebody is seeing this day in and day out in the work that they're doing, and they say that to you, it's kind of like it hits you on the bricks. So, yeah, that was that. That's really kind of shapes my thoughts. Around keto is hearing a scientist who does this for a living, day and day out, researching it, saying that it's looking at the cells. Yes, correct, so anyways, that's my, my thoughts on something.

Speaker 1: 50:12

I'm so glad that I asked you. I really totally had to, and also the cyclical way in which women also need energy differently throughout the month even kind of underlines that a little bit more, which makes me kind of nervous when I see all that, all those trends.

Speaker 2: 50:39

Yes, exactly, and kind of going over again. What we talked about is how does something become a lifestyle Like? We want to stay away from these extremes. We want to be able to have our life not so hyper-focused on what we do. If all day long, you're spending your energy on, these are the things I have to do, these are the things I can't do, this is what I need to eat, this is what I'm not allowed to eat, this is what I have to do from a workout perspective and I can't do from a workout perspective.

Speaker 2: 51:08

We're spending all day long with our mental energy focused on that. How are we supposed to have time for the lifestyle components, the relationship side, the recovery side? We need our brains to be able to turn off, recover a little bit. Those extremes become so overwhelming and it's hard to step away from that. But I think that's a skillset Again, this could be a whole other podcast on its own but a skill set for women to really start to let go of the extremes and, as my mom for years, again is finding that balance.

Speaker 1: 51:47

Yeah, it's so exciting to do the extremes. It's so boring to do the boring the regular knowledge that your mom was giving you as you were growing up, like just keep, stay balanced, it's like but there's all these new things. I love shiny new things.

Speaker 2: 52:06

Mm, hmm, yeah, that's so true. It's so true especially with this like fast action world we live in is I want results and I want results now, right now.

Speaker 1: 52:18

Yeah, you mentioned the interplay between the stress and the sleep quality and and the body composition. So the the way these things affect us when we're 19 and 18. And you know, I remember I was in the military at that, those specific ages, and I was running on very low sleep because I was you know, working every two weeks at a bar and then when I finished I went to the base and then from there we were, you know, and now you just describe that to me and I'm like passing out, I just like want to so um, those interconnected factors, I guess do you want to say anything about them regarding the the pursuit of a healthier body, healthier body composition.

Speaker 2: 53:16

Yeah, absolutely so. I think it is very, very crucial to understand that, as much as we talk about like strength training and being active and moving throughout the day, rest is just as important. But rest doesn't necessarily come from sitting on a couch, turning on Netflix and binging all day long. That is not rest. Rest is how do we turn our mind off a little bit. So things like meditation, things like relaxation, things like going for a walk in a quiet, peaceful environment Yesterday I took my dogs for a three-mile hike in the woods. I did not have my phone, I was not listening to a book or music or podcast or anything. It was just disconnecting, and that, in and of itself, is rest and recovery. We have to decrease that stimulation. So what is it that you can do throughout your day to decrease the stimulation, to let your body rest? Again, turning on Netflix is not decreasing the stimulation, and that is very challenging for people to do is to kind of turn off the noise the literal noise, not just figurative noise, but the literal noise and let your body sit at rest. So doing that during the day, but also finding a way to do that at night that will allow you to transition to being able to sleep better. So again, it's not watching TV, turning it off and falling asleep, or even worse, like having the TV on when you're in bed and keeping it on and falling asleep to that right. That's that mental stimulation coming in.

Speaker 2: 54:53

How do we start to kind of turn our brain off and focus on things like breathing? So diaphragmatic breathing is something that I love to do. I'll do that when I'm feeling stressed, overwhelmed. I do it at night before I go to bed. I do it if it's the middle of the night and I can't really fall asleep and my brain's going where.

Speaker 2: 55:12

You just lay down, place a hand on your chest, a hand on your belly, close your eyes and you take a big, deep inhale in through your nose and fill your belly with air. So your belly is expanding like it's filling with a balloon and then you exhale long and slow throughout your mouth until that belly completely deflates like a balloon that's completely run out of air and then you visualize the belly again as you inhale filling with air and that is going to help calm down your nervous system and help you relax. And that's something that you can do. You know, sitting in the middle of recording a podcast. You can get down on the floor and do it after you've had a stressful meeting. You can do it in bed when you're about to fall asleep and you're having a hard time falling asleep, and so it's. How do we turn off the noise and kind of focus in words a little more?

Speaker 1: 56:11

As you were describing that, I was thinking to myself. One of the reasons I so deeply respect you is also because you walk the walk, thank you. And of course I was thinking that because you were talking about how you were walking. So no pun intended, but for the three hours with the dogs I thought that was just so great. I feel super grateful. Thank you so much for joining us and sharing your wisdom and your experience. Like I just said, you really do walk the walk and I really look forward to to next time.

Speaker 2: 56:51

Me too, and you know, there is always in these podcasts, in any podcast, that you put out so much information that I think it can almost feel overwhelming. But if people can kind of go back, listen to this podcast and just take one little piece, just one little something, to start to incorporate in your routine on a daily basis, on a weekly basis, have it recurring, then start to build those layers, it helps. It's so easy to like listen to this, turn it off and feel overwhelmed of all of the things that you may not be doing. Right, how am I supposed to do this all? Start with one piece.

Speaker 1: 57:31

Just start with one piece. Thank you for saying that. Thank you for saying that. I'm also going to say I'm like I really think you for saying that. I'm also going to say I'm like I really think that's super important. I'm also just going to share that I, when I'm talking to people on the podcast, I am writing notes because there's so much going on and I want to make sure that, like the, the, the pearls and the things that really are popping out for me specifically, um, that I have them down. And so anybody like, if, if one little sentence resonates with you, maybe just like, make a tiny little note, or you know something like that, or or keep going back for sure, um, thank you, you're welcome. Thank you, dee sure.

Speaker 2: 58:16

Thank you, you're welcome. Thank you, dee, I really appreciate you.

Speaker 1: 58:20

Hey, thanks so much for tuning in and if this hit home, please share it with your crew. Likes, comments, shares show your loved ones you care.